[00:00:05]
[Call to Order]
MORNING.THIS REGULAR MEETING OF THE KAUFMAN COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT IS CALLED TO ORDER.
TODAY IS TUESDAY, DECEMBER 6TH, 2022.
IT'S NINE O'CLOCK IN THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT MEETING ROOM IN THE COURTHOUSE, ANNEX AND KAUFMAN.
UH, WE'LL START OUR, UH, MEETING TODAY.
I'LL OFFER THE INVOCATION AND, UH, ASK, UH, COMMISSIONER HUNT, IF HE'LL LEAD US IN THE PLEDGES, WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND HEAVEN.
FATHER, WE THANK YOU FOR ALL THE BLESSINGS OF THIS LIFE.
UH, WE ASK THAT YOU, UH, HELP US MAKE WISE DECISIONS, UH, FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL OF OUR, ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENT IN THIS COUNTY.
UH, WE PARTICULARLY ASK YOUR BLESSING AND, AND PROTECTION ON PEOPLE WHO PROTECT US.
THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THE BLESSINGS IN THIS LIFE.
AND JESUS' NAME I AMEN PLEDGE ALLEG, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA REPUBLIC, WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION, INVISIBLE LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL HONOR TEXAS ALLEGIANCE TO TEXAS, IN TEXAS ONCE THEY, GOD, ONE INDIVIDUAL.
UM, I HAVE ONE CARD, UH, OF SOMEONE THAT WISHES TO SPEAK REGARDING ITEM FIVE, AND WE'LL BRING THAT FORWARD.
WE'RE GONNA MOVE THAT ITEM UP A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME PARTICIPANTS IN THIS DISCUSSION THAT ARE GONNA NEED TO LEAVE EARLY.
UH, SO FIRST ITEM IN BUSINESS IS ROUTINE
[1. ROUTINE CORRESPONDENCE]
CORRESPONDENCE.UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY REMEMBERS AND IS AWARE THAT WE ARE BREAKING GROUND TODAY ON THE SHERIFF'S, THE KAUFMAN COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT SUBSTATION ADJACENT TO NORTH FORNEY HIGH SCHOOL.
UH, WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION POSTED ON OUR WEBSITE, AND I THINK DONNA'S BEEN PUTTING IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA ALSO STARTS AT TWO O'CLOCK.
UM, AND WE, UH, WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING EVERYBODY THERE FOR THAT VERY IMPORTANT GROUNDBREAKING.
DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY ROUTINE CORRESPONDENCE TO SHARE? OKAY.
[2. CONSENT AGENDA]
WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE CONSENT AGENDA.WE HAVE FOUR ITEMS, A THROUGH D ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.
I'LL START WITH D UH, COMMISSIONER BARBARA WANTS TO JUST, UH, PULL THAT OFF AND JUST, UH, MAKE, MAKE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT D YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO, UM, UH, RECOGNIZE, UH, CHUCK, SHE OF ELMO AND ERIC PORTER OF A SPRINGS WHO SERVED ON THE S D THREE BOARD FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS.
AND, UH, THEY HAVE DECIDED, UH, NOT TO, TO SERVE AGAIN, BUT WE DO WANT TO THANK THEM FOR THEIR SERVICE.
WE WANNA WELCOME, UH, TAYLOR BREWER AND JOHN LEE WHO HAVE, UH, UH, ASKED, UH, TO SERVE.
AND, UH, WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THEM COMING ON BOARD, UH, JANUARY.
SO SINCE WE HAVE THAT DISCUSSED THERE, UH, COULD I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THE APPOINTING OF TAYLOR BREWER AND JOHN LEE IS PRESENTED.
WE HAVE A MOTION OF COMMISSIONER BARBER.
COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS DISCUSSION.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
PROPOSE? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES.
THAT LEAVES THE REMAINING ITEMS A THROUGH C ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.
ANYONE CARE TO PULL ANY OF THOSE ITEMS OFF? IF NOT, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF CONSENT AGENDA AS PRESENTED? I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION WAY THAT MOTION COME.
IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
OPPOSED? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES.
MAKE A RULE QUICK SHIFT HERE BECAUSE OF A SCHEDULING
[5. Commissioner Barber; Discuss flooding issues in the Saddle Ridge Subdivision on CR 346, Kaufman County, ]
CONFLICT.UH, ITEM FIVE, COMMISSIONER BARBER DISCUSSED FLOODING ISSUES IN THE SADDLE RIDGE SUBDIVISION ON COUNTY ROAD 3 46 IN KAUFLAND COUNTY COMMISSIONER.
UH, WE HAVE, UH, SOME FOLKS HERE.
I BELIEVE WE JUST HAD ONE PERSON THAT SIGNED UP TO SPEAK.
ANYBODY ELSE, UH, WANNA SIGN UP TO SPEAK? UH, IF YOU, IF YOU DO, PLEASE, UH, GET WITH, UH, THE CLERK BACK THERE AND FILL OUT THE FORM.
BUT, UH, WHO IS THE FIRST ONE? UH, WE HAVE, UH, DAVID TISDALE.
DAVID, DO YOU WANT TO COME ON UP HERE AND TELL US WHAT Y'ALL WANT US TO HEAR? IF YOU COME UP THE MICROPHONE, TELL US WHO YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU LIVE.
WELL, MY NAME IS DAVE TISDALE.
RECENTLY, UH, AS OF APRIL, MY WIFE AND I MOVED TO KAUFMAN COUNTY, TEXAS, FIRST TIME BEING IN TEXAS AS A RESIDENT.
AND, UM, WE PURCHASED A HOME IN APRIL IN A SADDLE RIDGE DEVELOPMENT.
[00:05:02]
HAVEN'T BEEN HERE A WHOLE YEAR, SO I DON'T KNOW.AND I DON'T KNOW A LOT OF THE HISTORY, BUT, UM, WE'VE EXPERIENCED SOME SEVERE FLOODING, UM, JUST BASED ON DRAINAGE ISSUES RELATIVE TO INDIVIDUAL HOMES.
AND, UH, COMMISSIONER BARBARA HAS, UH, COME OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES AND HAS ACTUALLY MET WITH US, UH, TO DISCUSS THESE ISSUES.
I DON'T HAVE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS WITH ME OR ANYTHING, BUT THEY'RE AVAILABLE.
I'D BE HAPPY TO PROVIDE 'EM LATER.
UM, BUT MY QUESTIONS ARE, AND, AND MY POINTS ARE THAT LOOKING AT THE KAUFMAN COUNTY SUBDIVISION AND LAND DEVELOPMENT RULES AND REGULATIONS, THERE'S CERTAINLY RESPONSIBILITIES THAT THE COMMISSIONER'S OFFICE HAD, AND I'M ASSUMING STILL HAS WITH RESPECT TO PRO, UH, APPROVING THE DEVELOPER'S, UM, INTENTIONS AND HIS PLAN.
AND THAT'S OUTLINED HERE IN, UH, UH, IN YOUR, UH, RULES AND REGULATIONS.
UM, THERE ARE JUST, JUST TO GO THROUGH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AS, AS IT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN IN THE ENFORCEMENT AND PENALTIES, UH, CLAUSE, IT SAYS THAT THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT OF KAUFMAN CAN, UH, RECOVER DAMAGES IN THE AMOUNT EQUAL TO, UH, THE COUNTY TO UNDERTAKE ANY CONSTRUCTION OR ACTIVITY NECESSARY TO BRING OUT COMPLIANCE WITH THIS DOCUMENT.
WELL, OUR ISSUES ARE SUCH THAT, UM, WE FLOOD, WE HAD A THREE INCH RAIN OVER THE COURSE OF A DAY AND A HALF, AND WE HAD WATER COMING UP TO MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.
I HAD WATER GOING ACROSS MY DRIVEWAY.
AND, UH, THAT WAS WHEN THE COMMISSIONER CAME OUT AND SAID, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE IN HIS WORDS.
AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT, UM, AND FIND OUT WHAT WE CAN DO TO FIX THE PROBLEM.
THE, UH, RULES AND REGULATIONS, AS YOU HAVE STIPULATED, SAY THAT THE SUBDIVISION SHALL BE DESIGNED SUCH THAT THE FLOODING OF THE BUILDINGS, UH, WILL OCCUR, BUT ONLY WITHIN A HUNDRED YEAR FREQUENCY.
WELL, OUR FREQUENCY IS EVERY TIME IT RAINS MORE THAN ABOUT TWO INCHES.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR THIS AREA TO SEE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN, UH, FOUR TO SIX INCHES OF RAIN IN A PARTICULAR RAIN EVENT.
THE ISSUE IS, UH, THAT THE COUNTY, ACCORDING TO YOUR DOCUMENT, IS APPARENTLY WAS SUPPOSED TO DO A FINAL INSPECTION OF WHAT THE DEVELOPER DID.
OBVIOUSLY, THE COUNTY APPROVED THE DEVELOPER'S PLAN, BUT IT WAS ALSO INCUMBENT UPON THE COUNTY TO DO A FINAL INSPECTION AFTER THE WORK IS COMPLETED.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW THE DEFINITION OF COMPLETED TO ME, THAT'S WHEN THE HOUSES ARE BUILT.
AND, UH, THAT INSPECTION WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN A FORM OF COMPLIANCE.
WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT DOCUMENT IS OR WHO HAS THAT DOCUMENT, OR WHAT THE COUNTY CAN DO IN THE EVENT THAT THE DEVELOPER DID NOT MEET HIS OBLIGATIONS AS IT WAS STIPULATED IN HIS, UM, UH, PLAN THAT YOU APPROVED.
SO, I'M, I'M JUST HERE, UH, AS A HOMEOWNER LETTING YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT DRAINAGE ISSUES.
AND IT'S NOT JUST ME, IT'S, IT'S OUR SUBDIVISION.
IT'S ABOUT A THIRD OF OUR SUBDIVISION.
BUT, UM, I'D LIKE TO JUST UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR RECOURSES ARE, WHAT THE RESPONSIBILITIES ARE, AND, UH, WHAT THE, UH, UH, CAPABILITY IS OF THIS ORGANIZATION TO HELP US OUT.
UM, BEFORE YOU ASK TO LEAVE, I'D LIKE TO HAVE OUR ENGINEER, GARRETT MOORE AND ALSO MONIQUE HUNTER WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
CAUSE ALL THESE DEVELOPMENTS GO THROUGH THEM FIRST.
IT ONLY COMES TO US IF THERE'S A PROBLEM.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THIS SET UP.
SO IF Y'ALL WOULD MIND COME FORWARD AND EXPLAIN A LITTLE
[00:10:01]
BIT ABOUT HOW THIS PROCESS WORKED WITH THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT AND KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT WITH IT RIGHT NOW.I GUESS WE NEED TO FIRST CLARIFY A DEFINITION.
SO THE DEVELOPER FOR THIS SUBDIVISION ONLY CUT LOTS.
THAT IS WHAT THE COUNTY APPROVED.
HE TOOK A LARGE PIECE OF PROPERTY, HE CUT THEM INTO SMALLER SECTIONS, AND HE PLATTED THAT.
THAT GOES THROUGH COMMISSIONER'S COURT, AND IT GETS REVIEWED.
AND AS LONG AS THOSE LOTS OPEN AND CLOSE, AND THE LANGUAGE OF WHATEVER NEEDS TO HAPPEN ON THAT PROPERTY IS LISTED ON THE PLAT, IT'S BROUGHT TO COMMISSIONER'S COURT.
THE SECOND STEP OF DEVELOPMENT IS IF THAT DEVELOPER GOES FORWARD AND SELLS HIS LOTS, WHETHER HE SELLS IT TO AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON OR A BUILDER, WE HAVE NO SAY HE IS ENTITLED TO SELL HIS PROPERTY TO WHOMEVER HE LIKES.
THE COUNTY DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING IN OUR REGS AND IS NOT ALLOWED PER LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE TO TELL HIM WHAT HE HAS TO DO AS LONG AS HE CUT THE LOTS AND THEY MATCHED.
UM, SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT, THE BUILDER THEN CAME IN AND HAD AN INHERENT RESPONSIBILITY TO BUILD PER THE PLAT, WHICH ON THE PLAT IT SPECIFIES THAT HE CANNOT CLEAR OFF ANY DRAINAGE.
HE'S GOT TO MAKE SURE THE WATER STAY.
I MEAN, IT'S CLEARLY NOTED ON THE PLAT.
SO THERE'S A DEVELOPER AND THERE'S A BUILDER.
WHAT THE BUILDER DID, WE DON'T KNOW.
WE DON'T PER LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, WE CAN'T EVEN CHARGE FOR BUILDING INSPECTIONS.
SO WE HAVE PUT IN OUR REGS AS CLOSE AS WE POSSIBLY CAN, A BUILDING PERMIT AN ADMINISTRATIVE TO WHERE IF THEY BUILD IT TO CODE, THEY CAN TURN THREE PORT INSPECTION INTO US.
AND WE WOULD DO A LETTER OF COMPLIANCE.
THAT'S ONLY FOR THE HOME ITSELF.
THE, THE FOUNDATION BEFORE IT'S POURED, PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, TO MAKE SURE IT MEETS THE RESIDENTIAL CODE.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT IN THE UNINCORPORATED AREA IF THEY DON'T WANT TO.
BUT IF ALL ALONE, I'M SORRY, YOU THINK THEY WANT A LOAN? IF YES.
NOW LUCKILY THEY ACQUIRE, THEN THEY NEED THE CORRECT INSPECTION SO THEY CAN GET A LOAN ON THE PROPERTY.
LUCKILY, WE'VE HAD SOME GREAT, UH, LUCK THAT FANNIE MAE, THE VETERAN LAND BOARD AND SOME OF THE OTHER LENDING COMPANIES, WILL NOT LEND MONEY TO PURCHASE THAT HOME UNLESS IT MEETS COMPLIANCE, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA INVEST THEIR MONEY IN SOMETHING THAT'S NOT GONNA STAND UP.
SO THE DEVELOPER, AS OPPOSED TO A BUILDER, WE DO HAVE REGULATIONS.
IF THIS DEVELOPER HAD COME IN AND HE HAD CREATED SURFACE INFRASTRUCTURE SUCH AS INTERIOR ROADS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, HE WOULD'VE STARTED AT A PRELIMINARY PLAT.
AND THEN HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO SUBMIT TO US CIVIL PLANS AND THEN PRECONSTRUCTION WOULD'VE OCCURRED AND SO FORTH, SUCH AS WINDMILL FARMS OR HEARTLAND, THOSE LARGER DEVELOPMENTS, THIS GENTLEMAN FOR SADDLE RIDGE JUST CUT LOTS AND THEN TURNED IT OVER TO A REALTOR.
SO WE DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY AND DIDN'T, WE COULDN'T REQUIRE CIVIL PLANS FOR SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T CREATE SURFACE INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO I GUESS THAT WOULD BE YOUR DEFINITION.
AND WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING IN THE REGS FOR THAT PART, THAT IS IF THEY CREATE SURFACE INFRASTRUCTURE, NOT JUST IF, I MEAN A FAMILY MEMBER CAN HAVE 200 ACRES AND CUT A BUNCH OF LOTS AND GIVE 'EM TO THEIR FAMILY.
WE WOULD ONLY VERIFY THAT THOSE BOUNDARIES OF THOSE LOTS OPENED AND CLOSED AND IT MET THE REGS FOR CUTTING LOTS.
GARRETT, YOU'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT ALL THIS OVER THERE.
COULD YOU JUST KINDA TELL US WHAT YOU FOUND? SO LOOKING AT IT, UM, OF COURSE I'LL TOUCH ON UH, KIND OF THE FLIP PLAIN JURISDICTION ON IT.
THERE IS NO SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA IN THE VICINITY OF THAT SUBDIVISION.
SO AS A FLOOD PLAIN ADMINISTRATOR, I HAVE NO, UH, JURISDICTION TO DO ANY KIND OF COMPELLING ACTION TO MAKE THE BUILDER EITHER CORRECT.
THE EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN, JUST, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL, IF THERE'S WATER STANDING, THEN IT MUST BE ON THE FLOOD PLAIN.
EXPLAIN THE KIND OF WHAT THE FLOOD PLAIN REALLY IS AND WHY.
JUST CUZ WATER STANDING WHERE DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT'S FLOOD PLAIN.
SO IN EVERY AREA OF THE COUNTY, IT'S ALL BROKEN DOWN INTO DIFFERENT ZONES.
YOU'VE GOT YOUR SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA, WHICH CAN BE, UH, A, A E AND UM, WELL THAT'S BASICALLY IT CUZ THAT COVERS THE HUNDRED YEAR.
SO YOUR A'S AND YOUR AES ARE ALL EITHER THE A IS UNSTUDIED, UH, AND THAT HAS A RANGE OF NUMBERS THAT ASSOCIATES WITH ITS, UM, CHANCE TO BECOME INUNDATED IN ANY KIND OF GIVEN RAINSTORM EVENT.
THERE'S A BASE FLOOD ELEVATION SET FOR THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT.
[00:15:01]
WHEN IT COMES TO AREAS OUTSIDE OF THAT, THAT IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA.ANYTHING CONTAINED WITHIN THE HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT OR A 1% CHANCE OF, UH, UH, EXCEEDANCE INTERVAL.
ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THAT CAN HAVE A RANGE OF DIFFERENT NAMES.
BUT THE ONE THAT'S SPECIFIC TO THIS AREA IS ITS OWN X UNSHADED, WHICH MEANS THAT IT, UH, DOES NOT BECOME INUNDATED BY FLOODPLAIN WATERS PAST THE 500 YEAR STORM EVENT.
SO IT'S A, UH, 0.2% OR LESS CHANCE OF EXCEEDANCE.
THEN THAT TAKES IT WELL OUTSIDE OF THE SPECIAL FLOOD HAZARD AREA, WHICH IS OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE JUST KIND OF CALL THE FLOOD PLANE.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S IN THE FLOOD.
AND JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE OUTSIDE OF THE FLOOD HAZARD ZONE DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL NEVER GET FLOODED.
AND I THINK PLENTY OF PEOPLE CAN ATTEST TO THAT.
IF IT'S FLAT LAND, MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS IF IT'S FLAT LAND MM-HMM.
I MEAN, MOST PEOPLE REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.
AND, AND, BUT THEY'RE ONLY GONNA FLOOD A CERTAIN AMOUNT, YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR INCHES OR WHATEVER IT IS.
AND IF YOU BUILD A HOUSE FLAT ON THE GROUND, THEN YOUR HOUSE IS GONNA GET WATER.
AND THEN IF YOU BUILD A FIVE INCH PAN OR SOMETHING AND HAVE A SLAB MM-HMM.
PROBABLY NEVER GONNA SEE WATER BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT ON THE MISSISSIPPI RIPPER OR SOMETHING.
IT'S NOT GOING TO COME OUTSIDE THE BANK.
AND WELL, UM, JUST KINDA ASK A QUESTION, GARY, I HAD, I ASKED YOU TO GO OVER THERE THIS, THIS PAST WEEK, UH, TO LOOK AND SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE COULD DO, THE DITCH THAT WE HAVE CONTROL OF THAT'S NOT ON THESE FOLKS PRIVATE PROPERTY.
WHAT'D YOU FIND THERE? LOOKING AT IT? THERE ARE SOME, UH, CULVERTS IN THAT AREA THAT COULD BE CLEANED UP.
THERE'S SOME TRASH IN THERE THAT COULD BE, UM, UH, TAKEN CARE OF WHEN IT COMES TO GRADING THE, ON THE HOMEOWNER SIDE OF THE DITCH.
UH, JUST TO KIND OF GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THERE'S A LINE OF TREES THAT GO DOWN MOST OF THE HOMES, THAT GROUND IS ELEVATED AND IT CREATES KIND OF A BOWL EFFECT INSIDE THEIR FRONT YARD THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THE WATER TO EFFECTIVELY FLOW INTO THE DITCH.
IF, UH, IF IT IS INSIDE THE RIGHT OF WAY AND THE COUNTY COULD REACH IT, WHAT COULD BE DONE IS THAT WE KNOCK DOWN SOME OF THE DIRT THERE TO CREATE WE POLES TO ALLOW WATER TO COME OFF THE PROPERTY INTO THE DITCH.
BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP THE DITCH FROM OVER TOPPING.
SO WHILE YOU COULD EFFECTIVELY DRAIN IT OFF THE PROPERTY, IF IT, IF THE DITCH IS ALREADY FULL, THE DITCH IS ALREADY FULL AND THERE'S NOT MUCH MORE THAT WE COULD DO BEYOND THAT.
UM, YOU COULD DIG THE DITCH A LITTLE BIT DEEPER, BUT YOU'D HAVE TO SIZE UP SOME OF THE CULVERTS IF YOU GO ANY FURTHER THAN WHAT IT IS NOW.
AND THAT REQUIRES BREAKING CONCRETE, PUTTING NEW PIPE IN, REFORM THE CONCRETE.
AND THAT'S JUST A, A HUGE ORDEAL.
BUT IF YOU MAKE THE DITCH DEEPER, BUT YOU DON'T INCREASE THE SLOPE, YOU'RE JUST GONNA HOLD MORE WATER.
UM, I THINK, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAYBE JUST REVISIT WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF A COUNTY ROAD BAR DITCH? IT'S TO STORE WATER.
IT'S, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE PURPOSE IS.
IT'S TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE ROAD BED, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
SO IT MAKES IT MORE A MORE SAFE DRIVING SURFACE.
I SEE IT, I HEAR HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS A LOT IN MY PRECINCT, WHICH IS THE LOWEST LINE PRECINCT.
THE, THE BARAGE SYSTEM IN KAUFMAN COUNTY IS NOT AN AQUIFER SYSTEM EVER THAT FLOWS WATER OUT OF THE COUNTY.
IT'S REALLY DESIGNED TO HOLD WATER THAT COMES OFF THE ROAD AND OR PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE ROAD.
WE, WE WE'RE JUST WRAPPING UP A FLOOD MITIGATION STUDY, THE COUNTY-WIDE STUDY YEP.
THAT THEN WILL ENABLE US TO BE ABLE TO ENABLE KAUFMAN COUNTY TO BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR, UH, POSSIBLE GRANT FUNDING FOR, FOR ACTUAL FLOOD MITIGATION PROJECTS.
SO, SO THERE ARE SOME STEPS ON ONGOING, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE COUNTY IS NOT A FLOOD CONTROL ORGANIZATION.
WE'RE JUST NOT, WE'RE NOT EQUIPPED FOR IT.
AND, AND, UH, THE MORE DEVELOPMENT THAT THIS IS A MULTIFACETED PROBLEM, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION, THE MORE DEVELOPMENT THAT TAKES PLACE, PARTICULARLY IN THE NORTH PART OF THIS COUNTY, EVERY
[00:20:01]
NEW CONCRETE STRIP CENTER AND PAD SENDS MORE AND MORE STORM WATER INTO AREAS THAT HAVE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE.SECOND, AS WE BECOME MORE URBANIZED AND SUBURBANIZED, UH, LARGE AGRICULTURAL TRACKS THAT USED TO BE MAINTAINED, UH, BY THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY, BY BIG LANDOWNERS THAT HAD BIG EQUIPMENT TO KEEP THEIR CREEKS AND, AND DRY WASHES CLEAR THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ANYMORE.
SO A LOT OF THESE NATURAL WATER COURSES GET CLOGGED, UH, FROM DEBRIS AND STICKS AND, AND, UH, SMALL HOMEOWNERS, THE BIGGEST PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE IS A 20 HORSEPOWER JOHN DEERE RIDING TRACTOR.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO EFFORT OR NO SYSTEM TO CLEAN UP THE NATURAL CREEKS AND WATER COURSES.
AND THEN AS YOU WELL KNOW, WE HAVE INSTANCES WHERE DEVELOPMENT AND AND OR INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, HAVE COME IN AND FILLED UP NATURAL WATER COURSES AND DRY WASHES AND CREEKS, WHICH EXACERBATE THIS SORT OF STANDING WATER PROBLEM.
SO, I MEAN, IT'S A MULTIFACETED PROBLEM, UH, THAT REALLY THE COUNTY HAS VERY LIMITED, UH, CAPABILITY TO ADDRESS.
AND I KNOW IN THIS PARTICULAR, UH, DEVELOPMENT, I LIVE A MILE EAST OF THERE.
AND UNTIL THESE HOMES WERE BUILT, THAT PROPERTY WAS NEVER UNDERWATER.
WATER USED TO FLOW OFF OF THAT PROPERTY JUST LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO.
CAUSE IT WAS BEING MAINTAINED BY, UH, A RANCHER, YOU KNOW.
UH, BUT WHEN THESE HOMES WERE BUILT, UH, THE DEVELOPER CAME IN AND DID WHAT HE DID.
AND THEN THE HOME BUILDERS, THEY CAME IN AND IT APPEARED TO ME ANYWAY, THAT THEY TOOK DIRT OUT OF THE FRONT YARDS OF THOSE PROPERTIES TO BUILD PAD SITES FOR THE HOMES.
AND THESE FOLKS HAVE BOWLS IN THERE FOR THE FRONT YARD, BASICALLY.
THE FRONT YARDS ARE, UH, SHAPED ALMOST PERFECTLY TO CONTAIN WATER WITHIN THEM.
THE PADS UP HIGHER, THE PADS ARE HIGHER.
I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THEY'RE HIGH, BUT WITHOUT PROPER GRADE SHOTS, I COULDN'T TELL YOU LIKE, YOU KNOW, HOW EFFECTIVE IT'S NOT, THEY'RE NOT A WHOLE LOT HIGHER.
YOU CAN STAND ON THE ROAD AND I MEAN, THE HOUSE IS YEAH.
WHICH IS WHY I SAY THEY'RE, THEY'RE HIGHER, BUT THEY'RE NOT WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER DID THEY WANT.
LYDIA, DID YOU WANNA SPEAK ALSO? I DO.
THEY, THEY, THEY'VE SUMMED IT UP PRETTY MUCH THE WAY IT'S BEEN.
I'VE BEEN FIGHTING THIS FOR A YEAR.
UM, I WANT YOU ALL TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS.
THIS IS NOT RAINING FROM THE SKY.
THIS IS ACTUALLY WATER THAT COMES FROM, IF YOU'RE FACING MY HOUSE, IT'S FROM THE RIGHT AND IT JUST, IT'S A FLASH FLOOD AFTER MM-HMM.
AND THIS WAS ONLY LIKE THREE INCHES OF RAIN THAT WE HAD TO THINK.
I CAN JUST IMAGINE ONE DAY AFTER ANOTHER, FIVE INCHES OF RAIN, THE VELOCITY OF THAT WATER WAS INCREDIBLE.
SO WE'RE GETTING FLOODED FROM ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK.
AND THIS IS, WELL, THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO THE HOUSE, I TOLD THE BUILDER, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A HOLE.
THIS IS A DRAINAGE PROBLEM AND IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.
WE'RE GONNA JUST D IN AND WHATEVER.
THEY'RE GONNA FIX IT FOR A YEAR.
I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE, I THINK.
BUT ANYWAY, I DID GET MY LETTER OF COMPLIANCE, WHICH I IMAGINE IT'S NOT WORTH THE PAPER.
IT'S WRITTEN ON THIS WHOLE THING THAT I READ.
I MEAN, OUR CULVERTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 18 INCHES MINIMUM.
I HAVE A CULVERT THAT'S 12 INCHES.
THE ONES THAT THEY TOOK OUT FROM THOSE NEW HOMES THAT THEY'RE BUILDING RIGHT NOW, THOSE ARE 16 INCHES.
SO YOU KNOW THAT MY DIAMETER IS WAY SMALLER THAN IT SHOULD BE.
I HAVE WATER LIKE THIS JUST GUSHING DOWN.
I TRIED MYSELF WITH A SHOVEL AND ALL MY NEIGHBORS CAN TESTIFY THAT I'M OUT THERE DIGGING DITCHES SO THAT THE WATER WILL RUN AWAY FROM THE FOUNDATION.
THE FIRST DAY IT WENT STRAIGHT UP TO MY, THE DOOR OF THE NOOK.
AND I WANTED, CUZ IT WAS, IT SOUNDED REALLY FIERCE.
AND I WENT OUT THERE AND WHEN I WAS GONNA STEP DOWN, IT WAS RIGHT THERE.
AT THAT POINT I GOT A SHOVEL AND I STARTED DIGGING SO THAT I COULD GET THAT WATER TO DRAIN PROPERLY TOWARDS THAT DITCH.
AND I'VE BEEN DIGGING FOR A YEAR OKAY.
[00:25:01]
HELPED ME DO THAT.MY HUSBAND IS VERY SICK AND HE WOULD, BUT HE CAN'T.
SO IN THIS PAPER THAT I WAS TOLD, IT MEANS NOTHING CUZ HE HAS NO TEETH.
I DID CALL KEITH BELL AND THEY ARE GONNA LOOK INTO THIS BECAUSE IT'S GOT EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED AS CONSUMERS.
OKAY? I CAME FROM ARIZONA NOT KNOWING KAUFMAN COUNTY.
SO I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR FLOOD PLAINS AND YOUR DITCHES AND YOUR, BUT I COUNT ON A STATE PROTECTING ITS CONSUMERS.
AND WHEN YOU SPEND 400,000, 500,000 ON A HOME, EVEN A HUNDRED THOUSAND, IT SHOULDN'T, THERE SHOULD BE PROTECTION FOR THE CONSUMER.
AND I FEEL THAT THERE IS NO PROTECTION FOR THE CONSUMER.
I KNOW THE BUILDER DID NOT DO HIS DUE DILIGENCE BECAUSE WHEN I TALKED TO TERRY WHEELER, HE SAYS, WELL, I SOLD THOSE LOTS AS IS.
AND HE WAS SUPPOSED, AND THEN HE GOT INTO, YOU KNOW, BURNS AND DITCHES AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO HIS DUE DILIGENCE.
AND I SAID, WELL OBVIOUSLY HE DIDN'T DO IT.
AND THEN YOU TOLD ME THAT HE DUG OUT THE FRONT YARDS SO HE CAN FILL UP THE, THE, WHERE THE SLAB GOES INSTEAD OF GETTING HIS OWN DIRT.
SO WE HAVE A, WE'RE ALL IN A HOLE OVER THERE.
I TALKED TO THE FEMA PEOPLE, MANUEL ROSO, I SENT HIM THIS VIDEO.
UM, THEY DID GIVE ME A CALL BACK.
THEY'RE VERY NICE, YOU KNOW, BUT UNTIL WE FLOOD AND OUR HOMES ARE TOTALLY DESTROYED, FEMA ACTUALLY DOESN'T FUND ANYTHING.
THEY DID TELL ME, TELL ME TO, TO TALK TO GARRETT MOORE CUZ HE'S IN CHARGE OF THE FLOOD PLAINS IN THIS COUNTY.
AND HE SHOULD KNOW THAT THIS AREA IS NOT A MAIN FLOOD HAZARD.
BUT WHAT THEY TOLD ME, IT HAS A MINIMAL FLOOD HAZARD ISSUE.
AND THAT WAS BEFORE, THAT WAS 2012.
THAT WAS BACK IN THE MAP OF 2012.
SO WHATEVER TERRY WHEELER DID BACK THERE GRADING AND PUSHING DIRT, I DON'T KNOW.
SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE, BUT IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE US, THE CONSUMERS TO BE THERE.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I HAVE TO BE HONEST, IF THIS HAS ZERO TEETH, I FEEL SORRY FOR THE JUDGE THAT'S PASSED THAT SIGNED IT FOR US.
CUZ IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS GONNA PROTECT THE CONSUMER.
AND IT ACTUALLY, WELL KEITH BELL DOESN'T, SEEMS TO THINK LIKE THAT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE I TALKED TO DOWN THERE, THEY SAY THAT THIS IS THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.
THAT HOW COULD THEY TELL ME IT HAS IT'S CRAP.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO WHEN I READ IT, THIS IS VERY GOOD.
THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT NOBODY'S FOLLOWING IT AS A NURSE.
AND I TELL EVERYBODY AS A NURSE, WE HAVE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES AND BECAUSE WE WANT TO PROTECT OUR CONSUMER, OUR CLIENTS ARE SPECIAL.
OKAY? WHEN YOU GO TO A HOSPITAL AND I'M TREATING YOU, I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND THAT I'M GONNA DO THE BEST FOR YOU.
AND THAT'S HOW EVERY PERSON SHOULD BE THINKING.
NOT JUST ME AND NOT JUST MOST NURSES.
I WOULD SAY THEY DO HAVE THAT ETHICS.
OH, IT TALKS ABOUT MORALS AND ETHICS AND SAFETY IN THIS THING.
I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WHEN I READ IT.
BUT AFTER THE MEETING WE HAD, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GONNA, I ACTUALLY, I'M GONNA WORK WITH TAKING THE, THE WHAT'S HIS NAME TO TO COURT, WHICH SHOULD HAPPEN NEXT MONTH AND SEE IF I CAN KEEP DIGGING DITCHES.
CUZ I REALLY FEEL IF THIS HAS NO TEETH, WE ARE NOT GONNA GET ANY RELIEF WHATSOEVER.
UM, LY YOUR PHONE IS OVER HERE.
BECAUSE I'VE NEVER, AND I'VE OWNED 15 HOMES.
I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS, ANY OF MY HOMES.
UM, WE DID, WE HAD A MEETING LAST, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST WEDNESDAY, A WEEK AGO IF I'M, I'M MISTAKEN.
AND, UH, IT WAS A GOOD MEETING.
I MEAN, THEY, UH, TOLD ME A LOT OF THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING OVER.
OF COURSE I COULD SEE IT CAUSE I DRIVE BY THERE ALL THE TIME.
UH, WE ARE WORKING ON WHATEVER GARRETT CAN COME UP WITH THAT WE CAN DO FOR THE DITCH TO MAKE IT, IT FLOW BETTER THAN IT IS ALREADY.
IF COVERTS NEED TO BE CHANGED, IF THEY WEREN'T DONE CORRECTLY, THEN WE'LL MAKE THOSE CORRECTIONS.
UH, BUT AGAIN, IT'S LIKE I TOLD YOU AT THE MEETING THE OTHER DAY, UNFORTUNATELY, IN A CIRCUMSTANCE LIKE THIS, UH, IT'S GONNA TAKE LAWSUITS.
IT IS CUZ IT'S A CIVIL ISSUE BETWEEN Y'ALL AND YOUR BUILDER AND OR DEVELOPER.
[00:30:01]
BUT IN THE 20 YEARS THAT I'VE LIVED A MILE DOWN THE STREET FROM THERE, I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT PROPERTY UNDERWATER UNTIL THOSE HOUSES WERE BUILT.AND IT'S BECAUSE HE PUT Y'ALL IN A HOLE.
HE DUG OUT YOUR YARDS TO BUILD YOUR PAD SITES.
AND, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, Y'ALL GONNA HAVE TO WORK OUT, UH, IN A COURT.
UN UNFORTUNATELY A CIVIL COURT.
UH, BUT, UH, WE'RE GONNA DO EVERYTHING WE CAN ON OUR END OF IT.
WHAT WE CAN'T DO, AND I'M GONNA USE, YOU KNOW, GARRETT'S EXPERTISE AND GUIDANCE ON THAT TO MAKE SURE WE GET WHAT WE CAN DO, UH, TO WORK AS BEST IT WILL THERE FOR YOU.
BUT WE STILL HAVE THE PROBLEM OF YOUR YARDS HOLDING WATER.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE WORKED OUT.
I KNOW LYDIA'S HOUSE, I BELIEVE YOU, YOU HAD YOUR YARD BUILT UP SOME UP CLOSE TO YOUR HOUSE.
WASN'T THAT YOUR HOME? THAT THAT WAS DONE TOO AND THAT HELPED KEEP IT AWAY FROM YOUR FRONT DOOR.
BUT IT STILL, I HAD A LITTLE, IT'S NOT REALLY, IT'S LIKE A LITTLE A LOWER YEAH.
IT'S VERY, VERY SLIGHT IN THE BACK AND TOWARDS THE SIDE.
BUT THE WATER IS ACTUALLY COMING FROM THIS SIDE.
SO EVEN IF I DID THAT AND I'M DIGGING ALL OVER HERE, YOU SEE HOW FAST THAT WATER, IT'S LIKE LIVING IN THE TO BASIN IN ARIZONA.
THIS IS RANGES OF RAIN IN TEXAS.
IT CAN GO ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND, AND ONCE THIS SOIL GOES SATURATED, OUR HOMES ARE GOING TO BE THE FOUNDATION RIGHT NOW IS JUST HEAVING.
YOU KNOW, THE SUMMER WAS SUPER DRY AND NOW WE'RE SO IN THREE YEARS WE'RE GOING TO START SEEING ISSUES WITH FOUNDATION.
NONE OF US SHOULD BE IN THIS SITUATION.
UH, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE? YES, SIR.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, UH, COMMENT A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, UH, DAVID, WOULD YOU GO AHEAD AND COME UP HERE SO WE CAN GET YOU ON THE SPEAKER PLEASE? YEAH.
I'M NEARLY BAD WITH NAMES, BUT IS IT GARRETT? THAT IS, THIS IS GARRETT MOORE.
I WOULD LOVE TO INVITE GARRETT TO COME OUT AND WATCH, BECAUSE WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IS THE ROAD CULVERT DREAMS INTO OUR YARDS, OUR YARDS BEING MINE AND MY NEIGHBORS, WHICH ARE HERE.
AND THEN THAT WATER COMING OFF THE ROAD OFF OF YOUR CULVERT IS DRAINING BESIDE OUR HOMES THROUGH A CULVERT.
I PUT PUT IN BECAUSE I HAD A SHOP PUT IN AND A DRIVEWAY, AND IT GOES ACROSS MY NEIGHBOR'S BACKYARD AND IT GOES BACK TO A POND, UM, IN ANOTHER AREA THAT'S SUB DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE, THE ISSUE IS NOT STANDING WATER, THE ISSUE IS NOT CULVERTS.
THE ISSUE IS THAT WHEN EVERYTHING IS WORKING, YOUR DRAINS, YOUR ROADS, YOUR CULVERTS DRAIN RIGHT INTO OUR PROPERTY.
WAS THAT THE NATURAL WATER COURSE? YOU SAY THERE'S A POND BACK? I DON'T KNOW.
THERE'S, I I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT TERRY.
BUT I DID LOOK AT A PHOTOGRAPH, UM, THAT WAS AN OLD PHOTOGRAPH BEFORE ANY OF OUR HOMES WERE BUILT.
AND IT, YOU CAN INTERPRET THE PHOTOGRAPH AS, AS A MEANS OF HOW THE WATER WAS FLOWING.
AND IT ACTUALLY FLOWED THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW.
SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE NATURAL WATER COURSE.
AND THAT, THAT'S WHAT GOT CHANGED WHEN THEY BUILT THE HOMES AND THE, AND THE, YOU KNOW, WELL, IT DIDN'T CHANGE THOUGH, MR. BARBER.
BUT, BUT THE WATER USED TO FLOW AND GO BACK TO THAT CREEK.
NOW IT'S GOING INTO YOUR PROPERTIES BECAUSE THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE FOR IT TO GO.
IT HAS IN THE SENSE THAT COMING DOWN OFF OF THE HILL, WHICH EVERYTHING BEHIND US IS, IS A HILL GOING UP.
AND, UM, ALL OF THAT WATER NOW IS FUNNELED DOWN BETWEEN THE HOMES, UH, BECAUSE THAT'S THE DRAINAGE THAT WAS PUT IN.
AND, UH, INSTEAD OF GOING OUT TO THE CULVERT BECAUSE OF THE LOW LYING AREAS THAT WE HAD ALREADY TALKED ABOUT, THE DEVELOPER, THE BUILDER, WHOEVER IT WAS PUT IN, ADDITIONAL CULVERTS UNDER THE DRIVEWAYS BETWEEN THE ROAD CULVERT AND, AND OUR HOMES AND THOSE END AT MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE AND ALL OF THOSE THEN DRAIN INTO AN AREA BETWEEN MY HOUSE AND MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.
[00:35:01]
UM, I, I WOULD AGAIN WOULD LOVE TO HAVE, UH, SOMEBODY COME OUT AND WATCH THAT BECAUSE THE ROAD CULVERTS ACTUALLY DRAIN INTO OUR, OUR AREA BETWEEN OUR HOMES.GARRETT, UH, YOU'LL BE AVAILABLE LATER THIS WEEK.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO RAIN SOME MORE THIS WEEK, UNFORTUNATELY.
UH, IF YOU ARE, I'LL GIVE YOU A HOLLER.
WE GO AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT WHILE IT'S ACTUALLY RAINING.
I'VE GOT VIDEO OF THE LAST TIME THERE RAINED WHEN I WAS OVER THERE STANDING IN IT.
AND I WANNA SEE IF WE CAN, CAN FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT WATER'S COMING FROM AND WHICH WAY IT IS FLOWING.
UH, BUT YEAH, MISS CAROLINE WAS JUST SHOWING ME YEAH.
SO, UH, I KIND I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND I WOULD LOVE TO COME OUT AND TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
AND AT THE LAST BIG RAIN WE HAD, AND THEN I'LL LEAVE, BUT WAS JUST ABOUT THREE AND A HALF INCHES.
AND ACTUALLY THE ROAD CULVERT BREACHED BETWEEN ME AND MY OTHER NEIGHBOR.
AND IT WAS COMING DOWN, UH, IT CUT ITS OWN PATH DOWN THAT WAY.
SO THE ROAD CULVERTS DON'T DRAIN IN ONE DIRECTION.
JUST SAY SOMETHING ABOUT BIG PICTURE HERE.
UH, LYDIA SAID SHE HAD SPOKEN WITH, UH, UH, REPRESENTATIVE BELL.
NOW IT'S, I THINK IT'S PRETTY CERTAIN TO SAY THAT IF THESE HOUSES WERE BEING BUILT IN A CITY THAT HAS THE AUTHORITY THAT CITIES HAVE, YOU'D BE VERY UNLIKELY TO SEE THIS SITUATION.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IN A CITY IS IF YOU DO A DEVELOPMENT IN A CITY, AND I KNOW THIS FIRSTHAND, HAVING DONE ONE, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO RETAIN, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE, THEY CALCULATE HOW MUCH WATER YOU HAVE TO BE RETAINED.
AND YOU'LL SEE IN A LOT OF BIG DEVELOPMENTS, YOU'LL SEE BIG PONDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WHAT THAT IS, IS THE CITY REQUIRING THE DEVELOPER TO PROVIDE RETENTION SO THAT THE WATER DOESN'T, SO THE WATER DOESN'T EXCEED THE WATER COMING OFF THE ROOFS AND THE HARD SURFACE AND ALL THAT DOESN'T EXCEED THE ABILITY TO CARRY IT OFF.
SO THE LONG-TERM ANSWER, WE, WE CAN'T, THE COUNTY CANNOT MAKE DEVELOPERS DO THAT.
UM, AND THE LONG TERM ANSWER WOULD BE FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO GIVE THE COUNTIES THAT SAME KIND OF AUTHORITY THAT CITIES HAVE.
SO THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA BUILD A DEVELOPMENT WITH 300 HOUSES, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PROVIDE WATER RETENTION.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE WATER NOW THAN WE'VE EVER HAD.
IT'S JUST A MATTER THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PLACE TO GO.
CUZ IT'S RUNNING OFF OF HARD SERVICES.
SO IF YOU ARE INCLINED TO, UH, SEND LETTERS TO THE, TO YOUR SENATOR AND YOUR STATE REP AND ASK THEM TO, TO FACILITATE, IT'LL, IT'LL BE A HARD BATTLE BECAUSE THE REAL ESTATE LOBBY IN THE STATE OF TEXAS IS PROBABLY THE MOST, CERTAINLY THE MOST POWERFUL LOBBY.
AND DEVELOPERS DON'T WANT THIS KIND OF INTRUSION ON WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BUT TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER, IT'S REALLY NECESSARY.
CAN I JUST SAY SOMETHING? SURE.
WHEN I READ THIS, IT TALKS ABOUT UNINCORPORATED AREAS AND I MADE SURE THAT WAS THERE BECAUSE IT PROTECTIONS ART FOR US.
IT'S NOT FOR THE CITY OF, AND WHEN I BOUGHT FROM ARIZONA AND I'M THINKING, OKAY, SUBDIVISION, I'M THINKING SUBDIVISION.
I'M NOT THINKING SOMEBODY TOOK 200 ACRES AND CHOPPED THEM UP AND SOLD THEM AS DEAL.
THAT BIG, THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
ANYONE ELSE, UH, FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD THERE? ALL RIGHT.
I, I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD SORT OF BY WAY OF EXPLANATION REGARDING, UH, THE COUNTY'S FLOOD PLAIN ADMINISTER ADMINISTRATOR.
UH, IN, IN HIS DEFENSE, WE, WE DON'T ESTABLISH THE FLOOD PLAIN.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T GET TO CHANGE IT.
UH, THOSE ARE ALL A ABOVE THE COUNTY'S LEVELS.
GARRETT IS REALLY JUST SORT OF THE PRINCIPLE RESEARCHER OF, OF WHERE THE FLOOD PLAIN IS DESIGNATED, UH, WHERE THESE, UH, DIFFERENT FEMA ZONES ARE.
SO, SO, UH, THAT'S THAT, UH, JUST WANNA CLARIFY THAT THAT'S NOT A, THAT'S NOT A FUNCTION THAT IS AVAILABLE TO THE COUNTY TO CHANGE WHAT THE FLOOD PLAINS ARE, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT THEN, UH, EXTEND OUR UNINCORPORATED AREA REGULATIONS, UH, TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE THINGS.
IF I MAY ANSWER, I SPOKE TO THE FEMA PERSON AND HE SAID THAT WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO, IF THEY HAD GRADED THAT UPPER AREA BEFORE, IF TERRY WHEELER RATED IT AND CHANGED THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THAT AREA, THEY
[00:40:01]
NEEDED TO DO A LETTER OF A LIDAR, A LETTER OF REVISION.AND THEN FEMA WILL COME OUT AND REDO THE MAP BECAUSE THE MAP IS OLD, IS A 2012 MAP.
SO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND THESE HOUSES SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BUILT THERE.
UH, GARRETT AND I ARE GONNA WORK TOGETHER ON WHAT WE CAN DO AS FAR AS THE COUNTY DITCH GOES.
UH, AT THE SAME TIME, I'LL BE IN TOUCH WITH, UH, KEITH BELL MYSELF AND SEE IF WE CAN GET SOMETHING MOVING FORWARD THERE.
WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO GET A MEETING WITH HIM WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES SO HE CAN GET IT FIRSTHAND FROM, AND THE ISSUES WE'RE RUNNING INTO WITH SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS.
I DO APPRECIATE Y'ALL COMING OUT THIS MORNING, AND ALL OF Y'ALL HAVE MY NUMBER.
IF ANYTHING ELSE COMES UP, PLEASE TOLERATE ME AND WE'LL BE WORKING ON, ON OUR END OF IT AS WE CAN.
THEN WE'RE GONNA STEP BACK UP AND GET BACK IN ORDER AGAIN.
THE JUDGE HAD TO LEAVE ON OTHER BUSINESS.
[3. Judge Gray; Discuss/Consider and possible action regarding current juvenile arrests, detention trends and the need for available detention beds. Consider potential sources of funding for the juvenile detention facility including the issuance of certificates of obligation. ]
ITEM THREE.AND THIS IS JUDGE GRAVE TO DISCUSS THE POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING CURRENT JUVENILE OF RISK DETENTION TRENDS AND THE NEED FOR AVAILABILITY OF DETENTION BEDS.
CONSIDER POTENTIAL SOURCES AND JUVENILE DETENTION, INCLUDING THE INSURANCE OF CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION.
ANYWAY, DOUG GRAY AT THE MINUTE IS FIXING HER LAPTOP SO SHE CAN, SHE CAN GIVE US A A SHOW.
I'M, AND THERE'S NO OMISSION FOR THIS SHOW, WHICH IT'S, HMM.
WELL, YOU SCARED 'EM ALL OFF TO LEHMAN'S.
I WENT AHEAD AND PRINTED OFF THE POWERPOINTS THAT EVERYONE COULD, CUZ SOME OF THE NUMBERS ARE REALLY HARD TO SEE ON THE SCREENS AS I WANTED EVERYONE TO BE ABLE TO SEE THEM.
WE'LL SEE 'EM ON THESE SCREENS HERE TOO.
WELL, SOME PEOPLE CAN, SOME PEOPLE KEEP GOING.
LOOK UP, HE HASN'T EVER FIGURED OUT HOW TO OPERATE IS, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE, YOU CUT IT OFF AND ONLY IT GOES OFF.
AND YOU HAVE TO HOLD YOUR MOUTH RIGHT OR SOMETHING EVERY TIME THAT WEEK.
YEAH, I DO WANNA THANK YOU GUYS.
THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT IS GOING ON IN MULTIPLE DEPARTMENTS IN REGARDS TO JUVENILES, NOT JUST FROM THE COURTS AND JUVENILE PROBATION, BUT ALSO WITH THE DA'S OFFICE AND OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THERE IS MORE INVOLVEMENT I THINK, THAN THERE'S EVER BEEN.
UM, AND YOU'RE ABOUT TO SEE THE NUMBERS AND WHY.
HOFFMAN COUNTY SCHOOL ENROLLMENT NUMBER, ENROLLMENT NUMBERS OVER THE LAST FIVE SCHOOL YEARS.
SO WHAT I'VE DONE HERE, THERE'S A TEA TEAM'S REPORT AND I'VE GONE BACK THE LAST FIVE YEARS BECAUSE ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO, LAURA PEACE AND I STARTED TALKING TO JUDGE RICHARDS, THE JUVENILE BOARD AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS BODY ABOUT THE NEED THAT WE HAD.
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO GO BACK FOUR TO FIVE YEARS CUZ THAT'S HOW LONG THIS CONVERSATION IS.
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST DAY WE'RE DOING THIS.
THAT'S HOW LONG WE'VE BEEN HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.
AND SO I STARTED WITH THE 2017 2018 SCHOOL YEAR AND I'VE PR AND I'VE GONE DOWN TO LAST YEAR'S, THIS IS NOT EVEN THIS YEAR'S SCHOOL YEAR.
THIS IS LAST YEAR'S SCHOOL YEAR.
AND YOU CAN SEE ON ONE OF THE, ON THE FIRST ONE YOU CAN SEE THE FULL ENROLLMENT.
BUT THEN I'VE TAKEN THE ENROLLMENT FOR SIXTH GRADE THROUGH 11TH GRADE.
THOSE ARE FROM, YOU CAN, YOU CAN ARREST A JUVENILE AT THE AGE OF 10.
WE HAVE I THINK AN 11 YEAR OLD.
AND IT IS A VERY SPECIAL CASE.
BY AND LARGE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 14, 15, 16 YEAR OLDS.
BUT I WANTED TO GIVE YOU THE POPULATION ENROLLED IN THIS COUNTY FOR THAT AGE GROUP SPECIFICALLY SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE WE WERE FOUR YEARS AGO WHEN WE TOLD YOU THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH DETENTIONS TO WHERE WE ARE NOW WHEN WE HAVE LESS BEDS AVAILABLE.
AND THIS, I DID THIS BY, UM, SCHOOL DISTRICT SO THAT YOU CAN SEE EACH SCHOOL DISTRICT I, AND IT ONE OTHER THING THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT, UM, OUR ISD POLICE REFER A LOT OF THE CASES TO JUVENILE PROBATION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE IS D AND THAT'S KAUFMAN ISD.
YOU ARE HAVING A MEETING WITH KAUFMAN ISD TODAY.
SO BEAR IN MIND ALL OF THESE NUMBERS, WE'RE NOT GETTING REFERRALS FROM ALL ACROSS THE BOARD.
AND KAUFMAN IS OUR NUMBER FOUR, UM, ISD AND POPULATION WISE.
AND ONCE THAT STARTS COMING ON, WE'RE PROJECTING TO HAVE EVEN MORE REFERRALS.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS, BEAR IN
[00:45:01]
MIND THIS ISN'T THE TOTALITY OF ALL THE JUVENILES.WE EXPECT THESE NUMBERS TO GO UP THIS YEAR.
SO JUVENILE CASES REFERRED OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, YOU CAN SEE THE TREND.
YOU HAVE THE TOTAL, WE HAD, OBVIOUSLY WE HAD ISSUES IN WITH COVID.
THE NUMBERS WERE STILL RISING EVEN THOUGH KIDS WERE NOT IN SCHOOL.
A LOT OF TIMES KIDS IN SCHOOL, THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THEM WILL GET ARRESTED.
UM, THEY'LL REFERRED ON, THIS IS A UNFORTUNATELY A BANNER YEAR FOR US.
UM, THAT'S 385 TOTAL REFERRALS FOR THIS, UM, FISCAL YEAR.
AND THAT STARTED, THAT'S OCTOBER TO SEPTEMBER.
SO THAT IT WOULD'VE ENDED IN SEPTEMBER.
UM, TAKING US THROUGH THIS PAST SUMMER.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE, THE TOTAL THERE.
ANYTIME YOU WANNA JUMP IN ON THESE NUMBERS, YOU GO RIGHT AHEAD.
I KNOW IN THE MONTH OF NOVEMBER WE HAD YOU TACK ON 40 MORE REFERRALS.
THAT MEAN 40 KIDS WAS ARRESTED FOR CLASS B.
SO IT IS EVERY MONTH'S GOING UP, RIGHT? YEAH, I KNOW SOME OF 'EM, YES.
SO THEN WE HAVE DETENTIONS BY OFFENSE LEVEL.
SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE WHERE, WHAT THE, THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE HAVING HERE.
SO BACK IN FISCAL YEAR 18, THERE WERE 45 FELONIES, 40 MISDEMEANORS THAT WERE, UM, DETAINED.
WE DON'T USUALLY DETAIN MISDEMEANORS.
THE THE ISSUES WHERE WE'RE DETAINING MISDEMEANORS ARE WHEN THEY ARE CAUGHT WITH GUNS, USUALLY STOLEN GUNS, ALMOST ALWAYS IT'S THE GUNS ARE STOLEN.
UM, SOMETIMES IF IT'S A BURGLARY OF A VEHICLE, THAT'S A CLASS A.
BUT USUALLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS IF THEY'RE NOT, IT'S NOT JUST ONE CAR THEY'RE BREAKING INTO, IT'S USUALLY SEVERAL.
BUT THEY MAY HAVE JUST CAUGHT THEM WITH ONE.
THE OTHER ISSUES WITH DETENTION ON MISDEMEANORS ARE GOING TO BE FAMILY VIOLENCE, ASSAULT, FAMILY VIOLENCE WHERE WE CAN'T LET THEM STAY IN THE HOME BECAUSE THEY'VE ASSAULTED SOMEONE IN THE HOME, EITHER ANOTHER CHILD OR USUALLY A PARENT.
SO THOSE ARE THE REASONS WHY WE HAVE SOME MISDEMEANORS DETAINED.
AS FOR THE FELONIES, THAT'S GOING TO BE FROM THE MORE VIOLENT OFFENSES TO BERKELEY OF HABITATIONS.
UM, SO YOU CAN SEE THE, THE TREND.
IT, IT'S ACTUALLY, IT KIND OF LOOKS LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE DETAINING LESS.
WE ARE DETAINING LESS, LESS, UH, FELONIES.
IF YOU, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, IT'S GOING DOWN.
THAT IS NOT IN CORRELATION WITH OUR REFERRALS THOUGH.
SO YOU LOOK AT THE NEXT PAGE, YOU HAVE THE NUMBER OF JUVENILES THAT BEEN REFERRED TO JUVENILE PROBATION.
THERE WERE 325 KIDS, 385 CASES.
THAT MEANS SOME KIDS HAVE MULTIPLE CASES, RIGHT? BUT THAT'S 325 INDIVIDUAL CHILDREN WHO WERE REFERRED TO JUVENILE PROBATION USUALLY ON A CLASS B OR UP OF THOSE 135 LAST YEAR WERE DETAINED.
THAT'S 42% AND THAT NUMBER IS DOWN FROM 86% FIVE YEARS AGO.
WE'RE LETTING KIDS GO THAT WE WOULD NOT LET KIDS GO IF WE HAD A DETENTION FACILITY OR IF WE HAD ACCESS TO MORE BEDS WITH A DIFFERENT GROUP.
THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE LETTING KIDS GO ON, ON GUN CHARGES, DRUG CHARGES, YOU NAME IT.
THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE LET THEM GO.
AND AND I, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE SUGARCOATING THAT ANYMORE.
THAT THAT IS THE FACT ON THE GROUND.
AND IF WE DON'T HAVE A BED, WE'RE HAVING TO CHOOSE WHO IS THE MOST VIOLENT, WHO HAS THE, THE BIGGEST HISTORY.
UM, INSTEAD OF TAKING IN KIDS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN IN, NOT JUST FOR THEIR SAFETY BUT FOR THE SAFETY OF THE COMMUNITY.
WHEN THESE ACTUALLY, AND I'LL GET TO THE NEXT, THE NEXT SLIDE.
VIOLENT OFFENSES BY JUVENILES WENT UP DRAMATICALLY LAST YEAR.
THAT 29, THOSE ARE, THAT'S AGGRAVATED ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON.
THESE AREN'T MARKSMEN WHEN THEY'RE SHOOTING, THEY'RE NOT HITTING THEIR TARGET.
THIS IS GOING TO PUT OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN DANGER.
THIS PUTS THE COMMUNITY IN DANGER.
AND, AND IF WE CAN'T LOCK THESE KIDS UP, WE PUT OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN FURTHER DANGER.
AND, AND THIS IS, THIS IS WHY I'M HERE.
THIS IS WHY OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ARE HERE.
SO WHAT DO WE NEED? WE NEED A DETENTION CENTER.
WE NEED OFFICE SPACE FOR JUVENILE PROBATION AND KAUFMAN AND INFOR DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE FORNY, BUT THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE POPULATION IS.
THEY'RE OUT OF SPACE RIGHT NOW.
[00:50:01]
YES, WE ARE.UM, SO IF WE NEED MORE OFFICERS, IF WE NEED MORE STAFF, WE NEED MORE COUNSELORS.
WE DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO PUT THEM.
UM, AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED MORE PROBATION OFFICERS AND COUNSELORS AND STUFF.
CUZ AS I SAID, WE'RE NOT EVEN GETTING REFERRALS FROM KAUFMAN ISD RIGHT NOW.
AND, AND THAT'S THAT, THAT IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.
WE ARE LOOKING TO YOU GUYS FOR GUIDANCE.
UM, THESE, I I'M KIND OF AT A LOSS.
I WE, WHAT DO WE DO? WHAT DOES KAUFMAN DO WITH 'EM IF THEY DON'T REFER 'EM TO YOU? THEY EXPEL 'EM.
THEY JUST EXPEL 'EM TO THE STREET.
AND I THAT DOESN'T HELP A THING.
I MEAN AT ALL, I THINK WE'RE WORKING ON IT.
WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF CORRECTING THAT AND I THEY'RE GONNA BRING THEM THROUGH US NOW.
BUT ONE EXAMPLE, WE JUST HAD THIS TO HAPPEN LAST NIGHT ABOUT 1230 LAST NIGHT.
WE HAD A ASSAULT CAUSE BODI INJURY.
WE GAVE THE LAST BED AWAY AN HOUR LATER.
OFFICER GOT A CALL MAYBE AT ONE O'CLOCK THIS MORNING, PRECINCT TWO.
WE HAD TO KNOW WHEN THE KID, SO EVENTUALLY WE HAD TO RELEASE THAT KID CAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME.
SO YOU RELEASED HIM TO TO HIS PARENTS? YES.
I'M JUST SAYING THEN THAT UM, YEAH, BECAUSE I'M LIKE YOU.
IT'S, IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A IT, IT'S NOT A CORRECT SITUATION AT ALL.
JUDGE, IF I COULD JUST TO ABSOLUTELY.
JUST TO FOLLOW UP A LITTLE BIT, SHERIFF SAID APOLOGI, Y'ALL KNOW WHERE HE IS.
HE'S OVER WITH THE NEW BUILDING MEETING WITH JAIL STANDARDS SO WE CAN HOPEFULLY GET THE COURTHOUSE COMMUNITY MOVED IN.
SO HE HAS, HE APOLOGIZES SAYS HE'S TOTALLY SUPPORTIVE.
THE, THE SHERIFF IS NOT PART OF THE JUVENILE BOARD, BUT EVERYONE THAT'S PRESENT IS, IS IS SUPPORTIVE AND JUST WANTS TO REALLY, TO BE CLEAR, YOU GUYS CAN ONLY DO WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THE FINANCIAL PART.
WE'VE TALKED OFFLINE WITH COMMISSIONER KATE AND BARBARA COMMISSIONER ABOUT THIS AND COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS AND HUNT ARE ALL VERY AWARE AND HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE.
PEOPLE THAT ARE PRESENT HERE HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE AND THEY'VE SHOWED THEIR SUPPORT BY STAYING.
WHEN YOU LEAVE, YOU SHOW THAT YOU'RE NOT SUPPORTIVE BECAUSE IT'S A PROBLEM.
EVEN IF WE'VE MADE MISTAKES ALONG THE WAY OF NOT DOING SOMETHING WITH IT, WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY IS MAKING A RECORD BECAUSE WE OWE THAT TO THE CITIZENS OF KAMAN COUNTY.
IF WE DON'T TELL YOU THEN IT'S OUR MISTAKE.
SOMETIMES THINGS HAPPEN AND YOU GO, WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.
I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE ARE IN A POSITION RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK THAT WE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT.
AND SO I TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE IF I DON'T TELL YOU IT, THERE IS THE OTHER NEXT BAD THINGS GONNA HAPPEN.
AS JUDGES SAID, AND YOU GUYS KNOW, MOST JUVENILES HAVEN'T TAKEN ANY, ANY COURSES IN GUN SAFETY OR MARCHMAN STEPS.
SO THEY'RE OFF THE MARK, BUT THEY HAVEN'T KILLED ANYONE YET.
BUT THEY HAVE PUT MANY PEOPLE IN DANGER.
THEY'VE SHOT PEOPLE, THEY HAVE SHOT PEOPLE, THEY HAVE INJURED PEOPLE.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INVERSE RELATIONSHIP, I HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING BEEN IN JUDGES' POSITION ABOUT 11 OR 12 YEARS AGO.
WE WEREN'T THERE AND WE WEREN'T THERE.
WE JUST, WE WERE HANDLING THE PROBLEM.
CHILDREN DO NOT KNOW STATISTICALLY THE NUMBER.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THEIR JUVENILE BETWEEN THE AGES OF 10, 16, 10 TO 16.
BUT THEY KNEW THAT FIVE YEARS AGO IF THEY COMMITTED A FELONY, THEY KNEW WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING THAT EIGHT OUTTA 10 OF 'EM WERE GONNA GO TO DETENTION.
AND THEY KNOW NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DETENTION NO MATTER WHAT FELONY THEY COMMIT.
SO WITHOUT THAT TOOL, OUR COMMUNITY IS NOT SAFE.
THAT IS NOT A REFLECTION OF Y'ALL OR US.
BUT NOW THAT YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD BE YOUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
YOU ALL HAVE PROJECTS THAT ARE IMPORTANT, BUT NOBODY'S GONNA COME TO THIS COMMUNITY WHEN THE WORD GETS OUT.
AND THE REASON THAT JUVENILES KEEP COMING, THANKS JUDGE FOR COMING.
I JUST TEXT HIM AND LET HIM KNOW IS THAT IF IT'S NOT SAFE AND NOTHING'S SCARIER THAN A 10 16 YEAR OLD JUVENILE, EVEN AN ADULT CRIMINAL, YOU CAN, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LOGIC SOMETIMES THAT GOES WITH THAT.
SO THOSE ARE THINGS I WANTED TO SAY.
I THINK COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS AND I TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT COS WHAT'S THAT LIKE? IS THIS A PROJECT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING IF YOU DIDN'T WANNA GO TO BOND ROUTE NEXT YEAR? OBVIOUSLY WE'RE AT THE END, MOST OF US, IF YOU'RE LAME DUCK OR NOT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE KIND OF DONE FOR THE YEAR, BUT WE WANNA PUT IT ON YOUR PLATE FOR NEXT YEAR.
AND THIS IS A PROJECT THAT WOULD FIT UNDER THAT.
CUZ WE TALKED TO GEORGE WILLIFORD ABOUT THAT JUST SO WE COULD GIVE YOU THAT INFORMATION.
[00:55:01]
HE'S THE SECURITIES AND HE KNOWS THE FINANCIAL PLANNING.IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY HAVE THAT I ALSO KNOW FROM TALKING TO OUR REPRESENTATIVE THAT WE THINK THERE MIGHT BE MONEY.
WHEN I'VE TALKED TO THE INCOMING COUNTY JUDGE THAT HE'S ALREADY TALKED TO COMMISSION, I MEAN COMMISSIONER, A REPRESENTATIVE BELL TO SAY, UH, THERE MIGHT BE SOME MONEY WE'VE UNDERSTOOD.
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD BECAUSE THIS IS A COUNTY PROBLEM.
WE'VE TALKED, I KNOW YOU HAVE TO OTHER THANKS JUDGE FOR COMING THAT WE'VE TALKED TO OTHER, UH, COUNTIES THAT ARE INTERESTED IN DOING SOMETHING.
WE'RE BRAINSTORMING, BUT I'M TELLING YOU THIS SHOULD BE HOPPED IN THE NEW YEAR.
WE LOVE TAKING CARE OF ANIMALS.
AND I HEAR THE CITIZENS THIS MORNING TALKING ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT THEIR HOMES.
BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE AND THESE KIDS ARE DOING WHAT THEY WANT AND IT'S ALL HAPPENING UP IN THAT NORTH AREA.
CAN I ASK THE JUDGES SINCE THEY CAME OVER FROM THEIR DOC, IF THEY HAVE ANYTHING? OF COURSE YOU CAN.
I KNOW THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MAKING A RECORD.
WE, WE JUST WENT OVER THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT AND THIS, THAT'S ALL I WANTED.
PLEASE, IF WE GONNA TALK, IF NOT THE COUNTY CLERK'S GONNA CHEW US OUT BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON THE RECORD.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? NO, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD.
PROBABLY I CAME IN LATE, BUT I'M I'M SURE THIS IS JUDGE RICH, EVERYBODY THAT YEP.
BUT JUDGE COUNTY COURT OF LAW TOO, THERE IS FOR A JUVENILE, UH, CENTER.
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE NEWS AND THE NEWSPAPERS AND YOU CAN TELL THAT JUST FROM, UM, LOOKING AT THOSE ITEMS. BUT, UH, WE NEED ONE JUVENILE CRIME'S GOING UP.
AND SO I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD EXCEPT, UM, JUDGE GRAY HAS MADE A, MADE A GOOD CASE FOR IT.
HE'S MADE A GREAT PRESENTATION.
I THINK, UM, JUVENILE CRIME'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST INCREASES THAT WE HAVE IN THE COUNTY AS FAR AS GREG.
AND I THINK I, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR JUDGE BLAIR, BUT I THINK HE WOULD, HE WOULD IGNORE, HE AGREES.
I KNOW HIM, I KNOW HIM WELL AND HE ALL RIGHT.
I THINK EVERYBODY ON THIS COURT AGREES.
I I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EVERYBODY GET IN AGREEMENT.
IT'S THE SOLUTION THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET TO THE AGREEMENT ON.
WELL, I, I DO THINK THAT, THAT Y'ALL PUT TOGETHER A GOOD TEAM, A GOOD PROGRAM AND YOU HAVE A VALID ARGUMENT, BUT YOU REALLY NEED TO, FOR LACK OF A GOOD WORD, I MEAN PUT THE PRESSURE ON ALL YOUR LEGISLATIVE PEOPLE, THE SENATORS AND STUFF.
AND WE SHOULD BE DOING THE SAME CUZ IT'S NOT JUST BUILDING THE BUILDING THAT'S GONNA BE EATING US UP FINANCIALLY IS TO OPERATE THE BUILDING.
SO NOT ONLY DO WE NEED HELP BUILDING THE BUILDING, BUT WE ALSO NEED HELP OPERATING THE FACILITY.
AND THEN WHENEVER YOU START MEETING THE STANDARDS FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S GONNA BE OBSOLETE.
WHEN SOMEBODY COMES IN AND STARTS CHANGING THINGS, YOU HAVE TO MODIFY.
I MEAN IT'S THE ONGOING CARE TYPE SITUATION THAT YOU KNOW, THAT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
CUZ WE HAD FACILITIES IN THE STATE BEFORE.
BUT BUT COMMISSIONER, RIGHT, YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT, BUT LET'S MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND.
IT'S LIKE HAVING, AND I USE THE WORD JUST TO HELP, IT'S LIKE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT WE NEED IS LIKE HAVING A COUNTY JAIL.
IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
IT'S CAUSE IT'S TURNED INTO A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY INSTEAD OF A COUNTY JAIL AND LISTEN AND THE COSTS JUST KEEP COMING UP.
BUT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS, IS ALMOST LIKE WHEN I WAS HERE 20 YEARS AGO AND THEN SHERIFF, WE WERE PUTTING PEOPLE ALL OVER THE STATE THAT WERE ADULTS.
SO IF WE'RE DOING THAT SAME THING AND IT, AND YOU CAN ALMOST TRACK THE SAVINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE, YOU'RE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.
BUT THE, THE TRAVEL TIME, THE FACILITATING TIME.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO SAY WE WILL ABSOLUTELY PUT PRESSURE ON THE STATE, BUT THE ONLY FORM OF MONEY WE'LL GET IS A GRANT OF SOME TYPE MAYBE.
BUT IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE A STATE PROBLEM TO KEEP YOUR KIDS BEING HELD PRE ADJUDICATION.
WE'RE TALKING HOLDING KIDS PRE ADJUDICATION.
SO THIS IS JUST LIKE THE SAME ANALOGY OF WE ARE, THIS WOULD BE LIKE THE SHERIFF STANDING HERE SAYING WE ARE PICKING UP 18 YEAR OLDS TO 25 OR 40 YEAR OLDS THAT ARE COMMITTING AGGRAVATED ROBBERY AND WE NEED TO PUT 'EM IN THE JAIL SO JUDGE BLAIR CAN TAKE CARE OF THEM IN COURT.
[01:00:01]
JUVENILES.WE CAN'T HOLD THEM WHEN THEY ARREST THEM.
WE ARE LITERALLY SAYING YOU DON'T NEED A BOND FOR A KID.
IT'S LIKE YOU DON'T NEED TO EVEN HAVE A HEARING.
YOU DON'T NEED TO GO TO YOUR PARENTS.
WE ARE LITERALLY CATCHING PUTTING OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT IN DANGER AND RELEASING.
AND WHOEVER CAME BEFORE HAD A MORE SERIOUS CRIME.
I KNOW LAURA WAS AT THE END OF HER CAREER, SO GLAD TO HAVE TR BUT SHE TOLD ME, I AM NOT GONNA BE THE CHIEF PROBATION OFFICER THAT LETS A CHILD ABUSER OUT BECAUSE I HAVE SOMEBODY THAT COMMITS A MURDER AT 2:00 AM AND WE ARE THERE.
SOMEBODY STOLE SOMEBODY'S CAR IN FORNEY, WHOEVER THAT CITIZEN IS.
IF THEY KNEW I WAS TALKING HERE TODAY TO KNOW THAT THAT LITTLE KID OR THAT JUVENILE STOLE THEIR CAR IN FORNEY AND THEY'RE BACK AT HOME BECAUSE TWO HOURS EARLIER HE HAD TO PUT SOMEBODY IN DETENTION BECAUSE THEY COMMITTED FAMILY VIOLENCE IN THE HOME.
AND YOU GUYS HAVE TO COME UP WITH THE PLAN.
WE CANNOT SAY THIS IS KEITH BELL'S PROBLEM.
THIS IS NOT THE GOVERNOR'S PROBLEM.
THIS IS KAUFMAN COUNTY'S PROBLEM.
IT'S ELLIS COUNTY'S PROBLEM TOO.
THAT'S THE ONLY RESOURCE WE HAVE.
AND IT'S ROCKWELL'S PROBLEM AND HUNT COUNTY PROBLEM BECAUSE ALL OF US ARE VYING FOR HOW MANY BEDS ARE THERE IN THE STATE.
WE GONNA HAVE MAYBE ABOUT 13, 14 DIFFERENT FACILITIES.
AND JUST LIKE YOU HEAR ALL THESE FOLKS ARE MOVING HERE.
HOW MANY NEW HOUSES? WE COME IN 40, THE NEXT THREE YEARS ARE LOOKING AT 24,000.
SO IF WE DON'T BUILD A FACILITY IN FIVE YEARS, 12% OF THEM WILL BE DETAINED AND THOSE WILL BE YOUR CAPITAL MURDERS.
AND WE DON'T WANNA LIVE IN A COUNTY LIKE THAT.
AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PREACHING TO PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE WE NEED THIS WELL, NO, BUT I'M SAYING WHAT I'M SAYING NOW, IT'S, WE'RE GONE FROM BELIEVING TO ACTION.
BECAUSE WE HAVE ACTUALLY ALREADY STEPPED.
I'D LIKE TO, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS, JUDGE.
I, I THINK, UH, IN, IN MY FOUR YEARS HERE, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, I'M LAME DUCK.
SO WHAT THIS COURT DOES NEXT YEAR WILL NOT BE ON MY HEAD, BUT I, I THINK IN FOUR YEARS, THERE'S NO DOUBT.
UH, AND I THINK EVERYBODY ON THE COURT RECOGNIZES THAT THERE'S A JUVENILE PROBLEM.
THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT COIN IS IF WE STARTED TODAY TO BUILD THE JUVENILE DETENTION FACILITY IN KAUFMAN COUNTY, THAT'S A 16 MILLION TODAY, A 16 MILLION COST, AND IT'S GONNA AVERAGE ABOUT 2 MILLION A YEAR TO RUN IT AFTER THAT.
THAT'S ALSO IN THE FACE OF THIS TREND WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE IS GETTING OUT OF THE JUVENILE DETENTION BILL, UH, FACILITY.
FOR SOME REASON, A LOT OF THEM HAVE CLOSED AROUND HERE.
EVEN THE STATE HAS, HAS LIMITED THEIR JUVENILE DETENTION.
BUT IF WE'RE MAKING A RECORD, AND COMMISSIONER, IT'S YOUR MEETING HAWS, LET'S MAKE, MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR.
THE STATE IS GETTING OUT OF POST DISPOSITION BECAUSE DURING COVID, THEY QUIT TAKING KIDS ONCE WE SENTENCE THEM.
THAT'S LIKE SAYING JUST SO I THINK IT'S PART OF THE TREND, JUDGE.
SO WE'LL JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THAT.
I, BUT I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE TREND THAT, UH, CLEARLY THERE ARE LESS BED SPACE NOW AROUND THE STATE THAN THERE USED TO BE.
SO IT'S NOT JUST A KAUFMAN COUNTY PROBLEM.
IT'S NOT JUST A KAUFMAN COUNTY PROBLEM.
THE, THE REAL PROBLEM THAT YOU FACE HERE SITTING ON THIS COURT IS THAT SOONER OR LATER YOU RUN OUTTA TAXPAYER'S MONEY.
YOU KNOW, YOU RUN OUTTA TAXPAYER'S MONEY.
YOU KNOW, THE MENTION OF CERTIFICATE OF OBLIGATIONS IS REALLY A SEGUE TO BEING ABLE TO FUND 16 TO 18 MILLION WORTH OF TAXPAYER EXPENSE WITHOUT TAKING IT TO THE VOTERS, WITHOUT TAKING IT TO THE VOTERS.
THAT'S WHAT CEOS WERE REALLY INTENTIONED FOR.
THEY ACTUALLY WERE INTENTIONED WHEN YOU DO THE RESEARCH FOR, FOR DISASTERS AND, AND, UH, EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.
AND I, I, I AM NOT CONTESTING THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE JUVENILE PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTY, BUT REALLY A JUVENILE DETENTION FACILITY IS ON THE BACK END OF THE PROBLEM.
WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS, WHAT CAN WE DO IN THE, IN THE INTERIM, AND BY THE WAY, EVEN IF WE STARTED TODAY, IT'S GONNA BE FOUR YEARS OR LONGER BEFORE WE COULD OPEN THE FACILITY.
SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ALSO OUGHT BE FOCUSING ON WHAT CAN WE DO TO DIVERT AND DEFLECT SOME OF THESE KIDS THAT ARE COMING INTO THIS PROBLEM EVERY DAY.
AND THERE ARE PROGRAMS BOTH THAT THE FEDERAL STATE, UH, AND OTHER EVEN METROPOLITAN AREAS THAT ADDRESS DEFLECTION AND DIVERSION.
WELL, TO ADDRESS, I THINK WE ALSO OUGHT TO, PARDON ME, I THINK WE ALSO OUGHT TO, UH, UM, AT LEAST EXPLORE, UH, SOME ALTERNATIVES TO SPENDING 16 TO 18 MILLION WORTH OF TAXPAYER MONEY.
UH, FOR INSTANCE, UH, I'VE MENTIONED IT IN HERE BEFORE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE EVER ACTUALLY TAKEN ANY STEPS, BUT PERHAPS WE
[01:05:01]
COULD EXPLORE PARTNERING WITH AN EXISTING FACILITY THAT'S IN A, A RELATIVELY, UH, CLOSE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA WHERE RATHER THAN INVESTING 16 OR OR MORE MILLION DOLLARS OF KAUFMAN COUNTY MONEY, MAYBE WE COULD INVEST FOUR OR FIVE AND EXPAND AN EXISTING FACILITY.AND NOT JUST BE A VENDOR, BUT BE A PARTNER IN ONE OF THOSE FACILITIES.
AGAIN, I'M NOT, I'M NOT AN EXPERT, UH, IN THIS, UH, JUST ALLOW ME TO FINISH, JUDGE.
I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THIS, BUT MAYBE WE COULD ALSO TAKE SOME STEPS TO REDUCE, UH, TIME TO TRIAL FOR SOME OF THESE SERIOUS JUVENILE OFFENDERS.
I, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE LAW IS.
THAT'S NOT MY, THAT'S NOT MY FORTE IN THIS INSTANCE, BUT, UH, I, I JUST THINK THAT YOU CANNOT CONSTANTLY FOCUS ON THROWING MONEY AT EVERY PROBLEM BECAUSE AGAIN, SOONER OR LATER YOU RUN OUTTA TAXPAYER MONEY.
THIS COURT LEVIED RAISED THE TAX LEVEE THIS YEAR, 22% OVER LAST YEAR ALREADY.
WE RAISED THE TAX LEVEE ON KALIN COUNTY, 22% OVER WHAT WE HAVE IN THE PAST.
AND, UM, SO THERE, THERE, AT SOME POINT THERE HAS TO BE, UM, AN INITIATIVE, I THINK TO EXPLORE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS, YOU KNOW, ON THE FRONT END, BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE TO EXPAND THE JUVENILE DETENTION FACILITY AND EXPAND IT AND EXPAND IT.
SO I, I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF DEDICATED YOUTH VIOLENCE TASK FORCE OR SOMETHING THAT, THAT, UH, WOULD AT LEAST BE A COMPONENT OF A SOLUTION.
I DON'T THINK THAT A JUVENILE, THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION.
I DON'T THINK THAT BUILDING A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR JUVENILE DETENTION FACILITY IS THE FINAL ANSWER.
AND, AND, AND FRANKLY, I, I THINK THAT, UH, AS YOU, AS HAVE HAS, HAS BEEN BORN OUT BY BOND INITIATIVES AROUND THIS COUNTY, UH, RECENTLY, I DON'T THINK THE TAXPAYERS HAVE AN APPETITE FOR ANY MORE DEBT.
THERE'S SCHOOL BONDS HAVE FAILED AROUND THIS COUNTY AND, AND, UH, IN ORDER TO PUSH FORWARD WITH A CERTIFICATE OF OBLIGATION WITHOUT EMBRACING VOTER APPROVAL, I THINK THAT'S A MISTAKE IN THIS COUNTY.
WELL COM COMMISSIONER, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I'VE LIVED HERE MY WHOLE LIFE, ABOUT 12 YEARS IN DALLAS, WENT TO SCHOOL IN LAW SCHOOL, AND I DISAGREE.
I DISAGREE BECAUSE I BELIEVE WITHIN THE SOUND OF MY VOICE, IF PEOPLE KNEW THAT PEOPLE IN KAMAN COUNTY BUILT A CHILDREN'S SHELTER, WHEN PEOPLE SAID WE DON'T, THEY DID IT WITH VOLUNTEERS, NO CHILDREN'S SHELTER 40 YEARS AGO WHEN THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE.
WE HAVE A LAW ENFORCEMENT CENTER.
IF YOU SAID WE NEED A JUVENILE CENTER WITH THESE NUMBERS, THE CITIZENS THAT I KNOW FROM BEING HERE WOULD BE FOR IF YOU WANTED TO PUT, LET ME, THEN WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD PUT IT ON A BOND.
WELL, THAT'LL BE FOR THE NEW COURT TO DECIDE.
YEAH, YOU SHOULD PUT IT ON A BOND IF THEY WANNA DO, DO YOU UNDERSTAND? I KNOW, BECAUSE YOU, YOU'RE LEARNED THAT IT'S A 45 DAY CONVERSATION.
YOU JUST DON'T DO COS WITHOUT HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.
AND WE WOULD HAVE DEBATE, I DON'T CARE HOW THEY DO IT.
IF YOU START TODAY, IT WOULDN'T BE FOR YEARS.
CUZ AS YOU KNOW, YOU ALREADY HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE THAT'S ALREADY DONE THAT.
AND WE ALREADY HAVE DONE THE PRE-WORK.
WE HAVE THE SITE WE JUST HAVE TO BUILD.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS A DISASTER.
AND I WOULD ALSO SAY, BUT IT'S NOT RELEVANT FOR PUBLIC DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE THOUGHT OF THINGS ABOUT A TASK FORCE.
YOU WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED THAT WE HAVE CREATED THAT TO ADDRESS THAT.
WE WOULDN'T COME HERE UNLESS WE'D EXHAUSTED THAT.
BUT THAT'S PART OF MY LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS THAT I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE WITH YOU OUR ADDICTION BECAUSE THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR PUBLIC FORUM BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WE'RE ARRESTING.
IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT IF PEOPLE ARE GONNA SPEND THEIR TAX MONEY TO KNOW THAT WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN POSSIBLY DO TO IMPACT THE PROBLEM.
WELL, I JUST TOLD YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT I'M NOT GONNA TELL YOU WHAT OUR PLAN IS BECAUSE THAT WOULD HURT.
YOU MIGHT WANNA SHARE IT WITH THE VOTERS, JUDGE.
AND THEN WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT WHAT WE COULD DO, I THINK THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT IN THIS CONVERSATION WOULD BE A GOOD THING TO TALK ABOUT.
WHAT OTHER THINGS? SO WE HAD AMONG OURSELVES SAID WITH ME AND THE CONSTABLE AND THE SHERIFF PROBATION, THE I S D CHIEFS, LET'S HAVE THIS, START HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.
AND WE STARTED THAT ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO BECAUSE WE JUST REALIZED THAT IT WAS MORE THAN JUST A BUILDING.
SO WE AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT, UH, THE PARTNERING ASPECT OF THAT.
AS I SAID BEFORE, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T CATCH IT.
WE'VE TALKED WITH ELLIS COUNTY, BUT WE HAVE TO START MOVING FORWARD AND BRING, HAVE REAL MONEY TO PUT TO THIS PROJECT BEFORE WE CAN JUST KEEP TALKING ABOUT, OH, WE'RE INTERESTED.
WHAT? WHERE'S YOUR MONEY? SO THAT'S, THAT'S SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED.
SO YOU WERE GONNA ADD SOMETHING ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS HE SAID THAT THAT'S PRETTY MUCH, THAT THAT'S WHAT WE DID.
[01:10:01]
AND WE STARTED HAVING THIS CONVERSATION FOUR YEARS AGO, WHICH, AND ALL OF THE BOND ISSUES WERE BEING PUT UP, AND THIS WAS NOT PLACED ON IT.IT WAS NOT CONSIDERED A PRIORITY OR IMPORTANT.
AND, AND THAT WAS A DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY THIS COURT.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE ELECTED TO DO.
IT'S OUR JOB TO ALSO TELL YOU WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND THAT THE ISSUES ARE ONLY GETTING WORSE.
IF WE HAD BEEN ABLE TO PUT IT ON THE, ON THE BOND ISSUE FOUR YEARS AGO AND IT PASSED, WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THESE ISSUES TODAY.
IF IT PASSED, IF IT PASSED, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD'VE KEPT IT FROM PASSING THOUGH.
UH, MY, THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL POINT.
MY ENTIRE POINT IS THAT THIS OUGHT TO BE A DECISION BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S IMPACTFUL FOR THE INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN, BOTH TO THEIR RISK, JUDGE, I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT ALSO TO THEIR POCKETBOOK.
AND SO RATHER THAN TO BEGIN A CONVERSATION ABOUT A COMMISSIONER'S COURT ISSUING $16 MILLION OR MORE OF DEBT, THEN THERE OUGHT TO BE, AND THERE'S A MECHANISM FOR THAT.
THERE OUGHT TO BE AN INITIATIVE TO PUT IT BEFORE THE VOTERS, UH, IT'S THEIR MONEY TO PUT IT BEFORE THE VOTERS AS A BOND INITIATIVE AND SEE IF THE VOTERS APPROVE IT.
IT, IT IS, IT IS NOT, UH, IT IS NOT ALWAYS APPROPRIATE FOR A GROUP OF FIVE PEOPLE TO DECIDE TO SPEND 16 MILLION WORTH OF VOTERS MONEY.
AND, AND, UH, I, UH, IF, IF, IF THE JUDGE IS ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE, AND I KIND OF, UH, AGREE WITH HER, IF THE VOTERS KNOW WHAT THE HECK'S GOING ON, THEN MAYBE THEY'LL RESPOND FAVORABLY.
BUT FOR US NOT TO TELL 'EM WHAT WE'RE DOING IN, IN ADDITION TO THE ASKING THEM FOR 16 MILLION, I DON'T THINK THAT'S PRODUCTIVE.
I THINK THAT'S THE WAY YOU ADVANCE BOND INITIATIVES.
BUT NONETHELESS, NONETHELESS, IN THE ECONOMIC SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN, SOMEONE HAS TO SPEAK UP FOR THE TAXPAYER'S MONEY.
AND I'M, I'M AN OUTGOING COMMISSIONER.
SO THE NEW COMMISSIONER'S COURT CAN TAKE IT ON HOW THEY WILL, BUT THAT'S A, BUT CERTIFICATES OF OBLIGATION ARE REALLY, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A LIMITED, UH, USAGE AND A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM LIKE THIS AS MOST APPROPRIATELY ADDRESSED THROUGH A BOND INITIATIVE.
AND IF THE KAUFMAN COUNTY VOTERS AGREE WITH IT, THEN WE'LL HAVE NO PROBLEM.
AND YOU CAN GO FORWARD AND BUILD A 16 MILLION FACILITY THAT'LL HAVE HOW MANY BEDS, DENNIS? ABOUT 25.
BUT SO WE ALREADY NEED MORE THAN WE ORIGINALLY TALKED ABOUT.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE ORIGINALLY TALKED ABOUT.
THAT IS WHAT WE ORIGINALLY TALKED ABOUT.
SO, AND, AND I'VE BEEN IN THIS COURT WHERE IT ACTUALLY MORPHED INTO NOT ONLY COULD WE HAVE A FACILITY FOR PRE, FOR PRETRIAL, BUT WE MIGHT EVEN BE ABLE TO EXPAND IT INTO POST ADJUDICATION.
SO THAT'S COME UP IN THIS COURT.
SO I I I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A REAL FOCUS, PERHAPS COMMITTEE, UH, BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, WE DO A, THERE'S A LOT OF INSTANCES WHERE WE DO A LOT OF TALKING AND WE MAKE NO PROGRESS.
SO IF WE HAD A REAL FOCUS COMMITTEE THAT HAD REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE COURT, THE JUDICIAL OFFICERS IN THIS COUNTY, PROBATION LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THAT COULD ACTUALLY MAKE TANGIBLE RECOMMENDATIONS, INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING, WE NEED A JUVENILE DETENTION CENTER THAT MAKE TANGIBLE, ACTIONABLE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WOULD THEN SUPPORT A BOND INITIATIVE.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE OUGHT TO BE EXPLORING.
I THINK, I THINK THAT, UH, I THINK WE BETTER MOVE THIS CONVERSATION ON, OR WE'RE GONNA BE HERE THE REST OF THE DAY.
BUT I WILL SAY IN CLOSING ON THIS ISSUE, THAT WE, WE ARE ON THE ROAD TOWARDS THAT.
WE DO HAVE THE MONEY THAT WE PUT FORWARD TO THE ROAD, TO THE PROPERTY.
WE'LL HAVE A WAY IN AND OUT OF IT.
WE DID BUY THE LAND FOR THE JUVENILE DETENTION CENTER.
WE HAVE HAD THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS, AND WE'VE ALL COME UP WITH A DESIGN PLAN, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD A DESIGN.
SO NEXT YEAR, WHEN THE NEW COURT COMES IN, THE THE OTHER PEOPLE, WE WILL TAKE THIS UP.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A DECISION OR WHATEVER BY ANY MEANS, TODAY OR IN THIS YEAR.
BUT WE WILL MOVE FORWARD NEXT YEAR AND WE WILL DISCUSS ALL THE OBLIGATIONS, ALL THE WAYS THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO DO IT, WHATEVER WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT WOULD TAKE US FOUR YEARS.
I BELIEVE THAT WE WOULD, IT COULD BE DONE IN A FAIRLY SHORT TERM OF MANNER, BUT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE IN RESPECT OF THE VOTERS AND IT, IT WILL BE ON OUR DECISION.
AND THAT'S JUST WHAT IT'LL BE.
SO I THINK, UH, IN CLOSING, I THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I THINK THE JUDGES, THE DISTRICT JUDGES, THE OTHER DISTRICT JUDGES COME OVER A MINUTE AGO.
I KNOW ALL OF THE JUDGES ARE IN FAVOR, THE DA'S OFFICE IN FAVOR AND, AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE SHERIFF NEVER MAY.
AND I APPRECIATE Y'ALL COMING AND THANK YOU
[01:15:01]
VERY MUCH.[4. Mike Slye, Commissioner Hunt; Commissioner Cates; Discuss/Consider approving Amendment No. 1 to Interlocal Agreement to Participate in the Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone No. 2, City of Kaufman, Texas (Amendment No. 1). ]
MOVE ON TO THE, TO THE NEXT ISSUE, UH, WHICH IS MIKE'S LIE AND COMMISSIONER HUNT AND COMMISSIONER GATES TO CONSIDER APPROVING AN AMENDMENT NUMBER ONE INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT TO PARTICIPATE IN A TAX INCREMENT REINVESTMENT ZONE IN KAUFMAN, TEXAS, THE CITY OF KAUFMAN, TEXAS.SO I'M GONNA LET THE JUDGE TAKE THIS ISSUE UP AND I APPRECIATE IT.
AND I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT MIKE'S SLIDE, SO AND NEITHER AM I.
HE'S, HE'S THE ONE, NOT EVERYBODY'S NOT S YOU KNOW, WE JUST NEED TO SKIP IT.
NO, IT'S JUST WHAT'S ON THE STATEMENT.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS, UM, TO ALL OF Y'ALL.
I'M A TIF CONSULTANT TO THE CITY OF, UH, KAUFMAN.
AND I'M HERE WITH MIKE HOLDER, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, UM, WITH THE CITY OF KAUFMAN.
AND SO I KNOW YOU LIKE REALLY LONG POWERPOINT.
SO I'VE GOT SOMETHING ABOUT 60 PAGES LONG AND WE'RE GONNA GO INTO SOME MINUTIA.
SO, UM, HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THROUGH IT PRETTY QUICK.
HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
WE ARE ASKING FOR AN AMENDMENT TO AN EXISTING INTERLOCAL, UH, AGREEMENT THAT WE HAD WITH YOU FOR TIFF NUMBER TWO IN KAUFMAN COUNTY OR CITY OF KAUFMAN.
WE'RE HERE AT KAUFMAN COUNTY TODAY.
SO I'M GONNA TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE TES AMENDMENT PROCESS.
UM, THE TES NUMBER TWO OVERVIEW, THE PROPOSED EXPANDED TURS, AND THEN KIND OF THE NEXT STEPS.
I CAN TELL YOU THE NEXT STEPS.
UM, WE'VE BEEN TO, UM, TRINITY VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
I WANT LAST, UH, MONDAY TO SEEK THEIR AMENDMENT AND WAS ABLE TO RECEIVE THAT APPROVAL.
SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AN AMENDMENT TO A TIFF, BASICALLY YOU HAVE TWO MAIN DOCUMENTS.
YOU HAVE AN AMENDMENT TO THE CREATION ORDINANCE, AND YOU ALSO HAVE AN AMENDMENT TO THE TURS PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN.
SO THAT AMENDED CREATION ORDINANCE CREATES FIVE KEY ELEMENTS.
THAT'S THE BOUNDARY, THE TERM, THE TIF BOARD, THE CITY PARTICIPATION, AND THE PRELIMINARY PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN.
THEN, UM, YOU WORK WITH THE PARTNERS TO ENTER INTO AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT TO SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR THESE DOLLARS, BUT FOR THESE DOLLARS, THIS DEVELOPMENT WOULD NOT OCCUR.
AND THEN ONCE WE'VE SECURED THAT, WE COME BACK WITH A FINAL AMENDED PLAN TO GO TO THE TIF BOARD AND ALSO BACK TO CITY COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.
SO JUST FOR A LITTLE REFRESHER, UM, I THINK IT WAS IN 2019, RIGHT BEFORE COVID, WE CREATED A TIF, UM, WHOLLY LOCATED WITHIN THE CITY OF KAUFMAN.
IT WAS APPROXIMATELY 111 ACRES OF UNDEVELOPED LAND.
UH, THE BASE VALUE WAS ZERO AND THE PURPOSE OF THE TURS WAS TO ENCOURAGE PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT THAT WE YIELD ADDITIONAL REVENUE TO ALL OF THE TAXING JURISDICTIONS.
SO THE AMENDMENT, UM, INCLUDES, UM, TWO PARCELS.
IT INCREASES, UM, WHAT WE DO WHEN WE DO A TURS EXPANSION, WE CALL THE ORIGINAL AREA CUZ IT HAS A BASE OF 2019.
THIS AREA IS, WE CALL IT TWO A BECAUSE IT HAS A BASE OF 2022.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE GIVE IT A TWO, TWO A.
AND SO WE'VE EXPANDED IT, WORKING WITH AND CONSULTING, UM, CO CONSULTATION WITH CITY STAFF ON ENCOURAGING SOME, YOU KNOW, VERY KEY IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENTS, UM, FOR AN ADDITIONAL 614 ACRES, UM, AS A PART OF TES TWO A AS A PART OF THAT, TES TWO STAYED THE SAME.
UM, THERE WAS A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT TWEAKS AND WE WORKED VERY HARD WITH MIKE AND HIS STAFF ON ALL THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROJECTS THAT ARE KIND OF IN THE HOPPER, BUT THEY REALLY NEED KIND OF A LITTLE BIT ADDITIONAL PUSH TO KIND OF MAKE 'EM, UM, WORK.
BUT TES TWO A LOOKS AT, UM, AN ADDITIONAL 200 AND, UH, WELL, UH, 219 MILLION WORTH OF ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT THAT, BUT FOR THIS TURS, WE DON'T REALLY FORESEE THIS COMING FORWARD.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS NO CHANGES INTO THE TERM.
UM, THE CITY OF KAUFMAN HAS AGREED TO, UM, INCREASE THEIR PARTICIPATION OR, UM, PARTICIPATE AT 75% OF THEIR M AND O.
UM, TRINITY VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE HAS AGREED TO 50% OF THEIR M O IN THE EXPANDED AREA.
AND WE'RE ALSO HERE TODAY TO ASK FOR KAUFMAN COUNTY'S PARTICIPATION IN 50% OF YOUR M AND O.
THIS IS, I THINK, PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT.
UM, THESE ARE ASSUMPTIONS ON DEVELOPMENT, BUT IF I TAKE YOU TO THE SUMMARY AND I SHOW YOU THAT THE TOTAL TAXES GENERATED IS 316 MILLION.
SO, BUT FOR THIS TURS, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THAT.
UM, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR THE, THE CITY WILL BE PUTTING IN 41.
UM, WE'RE ASKING FOR THE COUNTY TO MAX OUT IS 16, UM, AND ALSO TRINITY VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE AT SIX FOR A TOTAL $63 MILLION WORTH OF POTENTIAL PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE NET REVENUE.
SO YOU HAVE 39 MILLION WORTH OF REVENUE COMING TO THE COUNTY ON YOUR FULL RATE, JUST PARTICIPATING ON YOUR M AND O 16, LEAVING YOU WITH A NET OF 23 MILLION GOING INTO YOUR OVERALL
[01:20:01]
GENERAL FUND, YOUR M AND O AND INS.SO WHERE HAVE WE BEEN ON SEPTEMBER 26TH? WE COMPLETED THE APPROVAL OF THE AMENDMENT ORDINANCE ON LAST WEEK.
I CAME FROM FORT WORTH, UH, LEFT ABOUT FIVE, GOT THERE ABOUT SEVEN 30 TO ATHENS.
AND, UM, TCC, UM, APPROVED THE, UH, INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT FOR THE EXPANDED BOUNDARIES.
AND WE'RE HERE TODAY TO BE BEFORE YOU.
AND IF WE GET YOUR APPROVAL TODAY, WE'LL GO BACK FOR A FINAL PROJECT AND FINANCING PLAN FOR CONSIDERATION BY THE TES BOARD AND ALSO CITY COUNCIL SOMETIME IN DECEMBER.
SO I'M HERE WITH MIKE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
UM, I KNOW I SHOWED THAT MAP PRETTY QUICKLY.
UM, HE'S THE MAN WITH THE BOOTS ON THE GROUND THAT KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND SO BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
SO WHAT ARE WE PUTTING IN, IN THAT, IN THOSE ACRES? UM, WE'RE CURRENTLY WORKING WITH, UM, ON THE, THE NORTHWESTERN PORTION AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN, UM, NORTH NORTHWEST OF THE COUNTY PROPERTY.
WE'RE CURRENTLY WORKING WITH A DEVELOPER THAT WOULD DO A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT COMMERCIAL ALONG WASHINGTON STREET.
UM, SOME MULTI-FAMILY, SOME SINGLE FAMILY.
UH, WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH THEM.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A TEMP OR TE DOES IS GIVES US SOME LEVERAGE TO BRING THESE DEVELOPERS TO THE TABLE TO, TO GET A HIGHER QUALITY DEVELOPMENT, TO GET LOWER DENSITY, HOPEFULLY.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WITH THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS TO, UM, IMPROVE THE AREA AND AESTHETICS AROUND THE COUNTY OWNED CEMETERY THAT'S SURROUNDED BY THAT PROPERTY.
THEY'VE AGREED TO, UH, DO, UM, ROD IRON FENCING, FOR EXAMPLE, AROUND THAT CEMETERY TO CLEAN UP THE AREA IN FRONT OF THAT TO ALLOW ACCESS TO IT.
UH, WE'RE GOING TO GET TRAILS, UH, THROUGHOUT THAT, UH, A LITTLE LOWER DENSITY THAN WHAT THEY HAD HOPED, UH, THE PROPERTY TO ON, ON THE SOUTHERN END, ON THE, UH, SOUTH SIDE OF THE BYPASS.
UM, WE, WE WERE WORKING WITH, WITH A DEVELOPER BEFORE WE BROUGHT, UH, THIS EXPANSION TO THE TABLE.
NOW WE'RE WORKING WITH A DIFFERENT DEVELOPER THAT, UM, HAS AGREED TO DO LARGER LOTS, INCLUDING SOME RANCH STYLE LOTS ON THE WESTERN SIDE.
UH, AS PART OF THAT, WE WILL AGAIN HAVE, UH, A TRAIL SYSTEM, UH, THEY'LL BE REQUIRED TO, UM, DO A PORTION OF, UH, ROAD CONNECTION THAT'S ON THE COUNTY THOROUGHFARE PLAN THERE ON THAT, UM, SOUTHWESTERN CORNER, UM, OF WHERE WASHINGTON AND THE BYPASS COME THROUGH, TIE INTO 34.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OTHER THING TO, TO KEEP IN MIND, UM, IS THAT BOTH OF THESE EXPANSIONS SANDWICH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF COUNTY, COUNTY OWNED PROPERTY THAT'S ONLY GOING TO ENHANCE THAT COUNTY OWNED PROPERTY.
AND WHAT WE WANT TO DO IN THE FUTURE, WHAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT DOING WITH THE COUNTY SHOW BARN FACILITY, UH, WITH THE POOR FARM, UM, WE ARE WORKING WITH A DEVELOPER ON THE, UM, NORTHERN PIECE OF THE, THE TRIANGLE, THE PROPERTY THAT YOU SOLD TO A DEVELOPER, UH, TO CREATE SOME SYNERGY BETWEEN WHAT THEY DO RIGHT THERE ON THAT CORNER IN FRONT OF THE OLD, UM, JAIL, UH, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, RIGHT.
UM, TO CREATE SOME SYNERGY THERE BETWEEN THEM AND THAT NEW DEVELOPMENT, UH, TO THE NORTHWEST.
UH, AND WE REALLY THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THE COMMERCIAL CENTERS OF, OF OUR CITY, AND WE WANT TO SEE THAT BE REALLY HIGH QUALITY DEVELOPMENT ON THE FORMER COUNTY PROPERTY AND THAT PROPERTY TO THE NORTHWEST.
SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF POSITIVES, OBVIOUSLY FOR THE CITY, BUT I THINK ALSO FOR THE COUNTY AS WELL, UH, TO ALLOW THIS EXPANSION TO GO THROUGH.
AND, AND I WILL ADD THAT THE TURS BOARD REVIEWED THIS AND DID PASS IT TO THE COMMISSIONERS ARE ON THAT BOARD, UH, AND IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.
SO I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OF THE QUESTIONS.
I MIGHT HAVE MISSED THIS, BUT WHAT THE LITTLE PLOT THAT'S, UH, ACROSS 1 75.
WHAT IS, WHAT IS THAT? THAT IS THE CURRENT WASHINGTON SQUARE, UH, SHOPPING CENTER.
AND, UH, WE HAVE HAD SOME VERY, VERY PRELIMINARY TALKS WITH THE CURRENT OWNER OF THAT.
UM, WE, WE HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM OWNING SOME OTHER PROPERTIES AND WE ARE ENCOURAGING SOME REDEVELOPMENT OF THAT AND KIND OF REVISING WHAT THAT SHOPPING CENTER COULD LOOK LIKE.
[01:25:01]
TO THIS POINT HE'S BEEN HOPING TO THAT, UM, AND THIS WOULD CERTAINLY ALLOW US ANOTHER FINANCE MECHANISM TO HELP SEE SOME OF THAT AND, YOU KNOW, A KEY INTERSECTION IN OUR CITY.BUT THAT LITTLE SECTION WOULD BE A HUNDRED PERCENT COMMERCIAL.
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE REST OF THE STUFF IS COMMERCIAL VERSUS RESIDENTIAL? I COULD TELL YOU ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS BASED UPON THE PROJECTIONS.
UM, WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT THAT IS, I WOULD SAY, UM, I WOULD SAY ABOUT HALF OF IT IS, UM, COMMERCIAL AND HALF OF IT'S RESIDENTIAL, UH, BASED UPON THE NUMBERS THAT I'M LOOKING AT ON, ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE.
EVERYTHING SIDE OF 34 IS THE BIGGEST SECTION.
AND THE WAY YOU WERE TALKING, THAT'S ALL HOUSES.
HE IS, UH, THE DEVELOPER THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY TALKING TO, UM, HAS SOME THOUGHTS OF MAYBE DOING, UM, SOME TYPE OF COMMERCIAL ON THE FAR WESTERN SIDE OF THAT.
UH, SOME OF THAT PROPERTY WOULD HAVE TO BE PUT A GROCERY STORE OR A, SOMETHING ON THE CORNER TO SELL GAS AND GROCERIES TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T, I, YOU KNOW, I, I UNDERSTAND AND I, BUT I'M A PERSON.
I JUST, JUST DON'T BELIEVE HOMES IS A GREAT TUR THING.
I'M SORRY I THAT I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS I FEEL THAT WAY.
IT BRINGS IN JOBS, IT BRINGS IN MONEY, IT BRINGS IN A LOT OF THINGS FOR YOU.
UH, COUNTIES DON'T HAVE TAX, UH, SALES TAX.
SO I M AND O I M AND O SUPPORTS EVERY SINGLE FUNCTION OF OUR GOVERNMENT EXCEPT FOR THE ROAD AND BRIDGE.
THE ROAD AND BRIDGE HAS THEIR OWN TAX AND THE PEOPLE THAT WAS IN FRONT OF YOU, THAT HURTS US.
EVEN EVEN TO FURNISH THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TENSION CENTERS, IT, JAILS, COURTS, EVERYTHING WE DO DEPENDS ON M AND O.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY ELSE HAS GOT THEIR OWN OPINION.
UH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TALK TO ME ALL DAY ABOUT COMMERCIAL AND I LISTEN AND, AND I ENJOY IT, BUT HOUSES, IT BRINGS ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT.
NOT SAYING THAT THOSE PEOPLE THAT'S MOVING IN HERE IS GONNA BE BAD, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT BRINGS TO OUR GOVERNMENT.
AND THAT'S JUST, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT, AND I GET IT.
IT'S, IT'S NOT PRODUCING MONEY NOW, BUT IT'S ALSO NOT PRODUCING PEOPLE THAT CAUSE US OUR EXPENSE.
YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? I, I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.
AND, AND PEOPLE COMING HERE AND THEY, THEY GET, HOW MANY YEARS IS THERE'S, IT'S COURSE IT'S 31, 31 YEARS, 31 YEARS.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE EITHER GONNA PAY IT BACK, GIVE IT UP, OR, YOU KNOW, TO ME, I, I'M JUST NOT A A I'M NOT A GREAT BELIEVER IN THE HOUSES CUZ YOU KNOW, MY DEVELOPERS OVER THERE DON'T UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE THEY MAKE SO MUCH MONEY OFF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE HOUSES.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY TELL ME CONSTANTLY, AND THESE ARE BIG DEVELOPMENT, YOU KNOW, WINDMILL, I MEAN, UH, DEVIN,
YOU KNOW, UH, THERE'S A REASON, UH, THEY PUT THE COST OF THE LOT ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
I MEAN, THAT'S JUST THE WAY I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.
I WOULD JUST SAY A COMMERCIAL THAT, THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT, IS, IS VERY STRATEGIC.
AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S ONLY GOING TO SERVE TO ENHANCE COUNTY PROPERTY.
WELL, I, AND, AND ALLOW YOUR PROPERTY, THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, I'M NOT GRAPPLING ABOUT TO, TO BE WORTH MORE.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK IT'S A SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT, UM, FOR THE COUNTY AS, AS WELL AS THE CITY.
I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS, BUT THAT'S A BIG BLOCK OF, I I WOULD ALSO, HOUSES WOULD ALSO SAY THAT I THINK PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT DENSITY AND THIS GIVES US SOME LEVERAGE TO REQUIRE LARGER LOTS.
WELL, YOU MAKE YOUR DEVELOPMENT PLANS AND ONCE YOU MAKE 'EM, IF YOU, IF YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE 'EM THAT WAY, THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.
I MEAN, IF YOU THEN THE CITY COUNCIL, IF THEY, FROM WHAT I, IF THEY, IF THEY, IF THEY, IF THEY DESIGN HOW DENSE IT IS, THAT'S HOW DENSE IT IS.
WELL, BUT WE CAN HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT CHOICE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING, UH, FOR HELP WITH YOU DO IF IT'S IN A TUR OR YOU DO, IF YOU'RE RIGHT, IF YOU'RE DANGLING THAT CARROT IN FRONT THEM.
BUT IF THEY EXACTLY, UH, IF, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO OWNS, BUT WHOEVER OWNS THAT PROPERTY, AS LONG AS THEY'RE MEETING YOUR MINIMUM
[01:30:01]
STANDARDS FOR HOUSES OR FAMILY, THEY CAN JUST PUT UP WHATEVER THEY WANT TO.THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR STANDARDS ON WHAT THE, THEIR HOUSES THE DENSITY.
I WILL SAY THIS, THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, CUZ THAT'S A QUESTION THAT WE GET A LOT.
TO MIKE'S POINT AND, AND TO THE JUDGE'S POINT IS, UM, IT ACCELERATES, UM, THE CITY'S ABILITY TO HAVE LEVERAGE BECAUSE YOU CAN ADOPT STANDARDS THAT ARE APPLICABLE FOR EVERYTHING.
RIGHT? AND THIS IS BASICALLY, IF WE'RE GONNA PUT IN INFRASTRUCTURE, WE'RE GONNA PARTICIPATE.
THIS IS GONNA BRING A HIGHER QUALITY, MAYBE A LOWER DENSITY, YOU KNOW, TYPE OF PRODUCT ON BOARD VERSUS JUST LETTING YOU KNOW IT KIND OF GO TO THE MARKETPLACE.
WHICH IF THEY HAVE IT, THEY'RE GONNA CUT IT UP AS SMALL LITTLE LOTS AS THEY CAN CUZ THEY MAKE THE MOST MONEY ON THAT.
WILL THIS BE A PLAN DEVELOPMENT? WILL THESE BE ALL PLAN DEVELOPMENTS OF THEM WILL BE PLAN DEVELOPMENTS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT IS YOU CAN, UH, THROUGH YOUR, THROUGH WHATEVER ADVANTAGE THEY'RE GETTING BY DOING THIS, IS YOU CAN MAKE BEING A PLAN DEVELOPMENT CONTINGENT ON THAT.
AND IF I, UNLESS SOMETHING'S CHANGED, IF IT'S NOT IN A PLAN DEVELOPMENT, THEY CAN BUILD A HUNDRED PERCENT HARDY BOARD HOUSES OUT THERE.
AND BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CONTROL THE BUILDING MATERIALS UNLESS IT'S PART OF YOUR DEAL.
THAT'S, IT'S ONE OF MY POINTS.
THE WHY ENHANCES THE AREA AROUND COUNTY OWNED PROPERTY.
AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT THE ORIGINAL BOUNDARIES, UH, WAS ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT COMMERCIAL.
AND THE PLANS ON THE BOOKS AT THE TIME HELPED IN MARKETING COUNTY PROPERTY THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO TURN OVER A LOT OF MM-HMM.
AND A LOT OF THAT WAS ON THE, THE KNOW THAT SOUTHPOINT WAS COMING AND SOME OF THESE OTHER, PART OF THE REASON THAT TRIANGLE SOLD WAS PEOPLE KNEW THAT THAT PROPERTY TO THE NORTHWEST WAS GONNA DEVELOP AS WELL.
SO, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY AND, AND I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL OF OUR DEVELOPMENT TURS OR WHATEVER IT IS WE'RE DOING TO FACILITATE DEVELOPMENT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT ALL BE COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL JOB CREATION.
BUT WITH THIS LONG CONVERSATION WE HAD TODAY ABOUT THE WATER SITUATION, NOW I'M ASSUMING THAT PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE CITY'S GONNA PUT ON ANY DEVELOPMENT IS GONNA BE FOR RETENTION.
I MEAN, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE, WE HAVE VERY STRICT YEAH.
AND SO, UM, AND IT'S AN ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S PART OF THIS PACKAGE AS WELL, RIGHT? UH, WATER SEWER ENHANCEMENTS TO ALL THOSE SORT OF INFRASTRUCTURES CURRENTLY THAT PROPERTY IS IN ACCOUNT.
THERE ARE, THERE IS NO INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND SO THIS, I, AND THAT'S WHAT THE QUESTION IS.
THIS IS THIS WILL ALL BE BROUGHT INTO THIS ANNEX INTO THE CITY.
OKAY? SO EVERY, AND KIND OF, I CAN GO BACK TO THE MAP TALKING OUT OF THE OTHER, OTHER SIDE.
EVERY SOUTH OF THE BYPASS, EVERY UH, EVERY HOME THAT GETS BUILT IN THE CITY OF KAUFMAN AND GETS OCCUPIED IN THE CITY OF KAUFMAN IS ONE LESS HOUSE THAT'S BUILT AND OCCUPIED OUT IN THE COUNTY.
AND UM, AND I THINK, I MEAN BASED JUST ON THIS CONVERSATION WE HAD TODAY, HE JUST SAID SOUTH OF THE BYPASS.
SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE OTHER PART'S NOT GOING BE IN THE CITY? THE PROPERTY OF THE NORTH ALREADY IN THE CITY.
ALREADY IN THE CITY AND, AND PARDON ME, BUT IT JUST OBSERVING THE CONVERSATION HAD, I JUST WANTED TO SAY UNINCORPORATED VERSUS CITY.
AND THAT WAS AS SIMPLE AS IT CAME TO THE ABILITY THAT YOU HAVE TO REGULATE THAT AND ALSO PUT IN INFRASTRUCTURE.
WELL, YOU HEARD THIS ALL, I HEARD THE CONVERSATION, HEARD ALL THIS.
SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY IT'S UNINCORPORATED.
WE DON'T HAVE THE POWERS, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
AND SO, UH, THAT, UH, TO YOUR POINT, JUDGE, IS BY PUTTING IT INTO THE CITY, UM, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ALL THOSE REGULATIONS AND PUT IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
WELL, YOU KNOW, AND AND I, I WON'T AGREE WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT ON HOW THIS WILL IMPROVE WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO WITH THE COUNTY PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE LEFT.
CAUSE IT'S THE POOR FARM AND THE COUNTY SHOW BORN.
SO MY QUESTION IS THIS, AND THIS ALL HAPPENED AFTER WE HAD OUR MEETING, BUT THE DEVELOPER WAS GIVEN THE PROPERTY THAT WE HAD MET WITH.
WE HAD TALKED IN HERE IN COURT WHEN WE DID REAL ESTATE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THAT THERE WAS A DEAL MADE WITH THE CITY TO BLOCK OFF THE SHOW GROUND SO WE'D HAVE SOME EXTRA SPACE.
AND THEN WHEN YOU CAME TO THE, MY OFFICE WITH THE MEETING WITH THE DEVELOPER AND I SAW THE PLAT THAT WAS NEVER FOLLOWED THROUGH.
I CALLED Y'ALL DOWN THERE AND Y'ALL SAID THE COUNTY NEVER FOLLOWED BACK UP WITH Y'ALL.
[01:35:01]
AND THAT'S MY, YOU KNOW, CAUSE I'VE TALKED TO ALL THE PARTIES INVOLVED AND EVERYBODY'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, TAKING THEIR OWN SLANT ON THINGS.BUT BOTTOM LINE IS THIS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE COUNTY BEFORE THE FINAL DEVELOPMENT WAS HANDED OVER, THE PROPERTY WAS HANDED OVER TO THAT DEVELOPER THAT Y'ALL GAVE HIM TO DO HIS DEVELOPMENT, WOULDN'T IT WARRANT JUST A FRIENDLY CALL? HEY, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
ARE WE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS OR NOT? BEFORE IT WAS JUST DONE.
AND THE SAME TOKEN, WHEN WE SOLD THE 11 ACRES DOWN THERE, THIS WHOLE COURT HAD THE CONVERSATIONS, IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT WE'RE GONNA SQUARE OFF THAT AND THAT THERE WAS A SWAP OF SOME TYPE WORKING WITH Y'ALL.
I THINK IT WAS YOU AND THE NOTES OF THE MEETING THAT I SAW.
IT WAS YOU SLY AND ANDREW, YOUR PUBLIC WORKS GUY, I GUESS HE'S WHAT, WHATEVER HE IS, DEVELOP SERVICE, WHATEVER.
BUT Y'ALL WERE ALL IN THE MEETING, BUT NEITHER SIDE CONTACT EACH OTHER AND SAYS, HEY, BEFORE WE SELL THIS, IS THIS DEAL STILL MOVING FORWARD? SO MY QUESTION IS THIS, IF I VOTE FOR THIS TERMS, CAN WE GET THE LAND BAG TO DO WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO IN THE FUTURE FOR THE, FOR THE SHOW GROUNDS? I KNOW IT WAS, YOU ALREADY GAVE THE LAND TO THE DEVELOPER AND IT WAS LIKE IN THAT MEETING WHENEVER Y'ALL THREW THAT STUFF OUT ON ME, IT WAS, I HAD TWO CHOICES.
I MEAN, I, I DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER TO JUST THROW A FIT OR WHETHER TO START CRYING.
CAUSE WHAT Y'ALL DID BY GIVING THAT LAND AWAY TO THAT DEVELOPER, YOU SHORTCHANGE KIDS, IT'S NOT ABOUT MONEY.
IT'S ABOUT THE KIDS AND WHAT THEY HAVE GOING ON OUT THE SHORE.
THESE ARE HUNDREDS OF KIDS AT KAUFMAN COUNTY AND WE HEARD THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS BEING OVERWHELMED BECAUSE KIDS HAVE NOTHING TO DO.
SO THAT ALL HAPPENED AFTER THE FACT.
SO IF Y'ALL CAN CORRECT THAT MISTAKE SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN THE FUTURE, WELL LE LEGALLY WE DON'T HAVE TITLE TO THE LAND.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO LEGALLY.
WE'RE CERTAINLY WILLING TO BRING THE COUNTY AND US AND THE DEVELOPER TO THE TABLE AND TRY TO WORK SOMETHING OUT THAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR ALL OF US.
AND WE'VE HAD A GREAT WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COUNTY AND WITH THE DEVELOPER.
UM, I DON'T SEE THAT BEING AN ISSUE GOING FORWARD.
I I THINK WE CAN WORK SOMETHING OUT.
I I WILL TAKE SOME ISSUE WITH YOU SAYING WE DID SOMETHING TO KIDS BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY WEREN'T TRYING TO DO ANYTHING THAT WOULD AFFECT THE SHOW BARN OR ANY OF THAT STUFF.
I KNOW WE MADE PHONE CALLS TO COUNTY STAFF ASKING WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THIS AS WE WERE MOVING THIS THROUGH THE PROCESS.
SO IF SOMETHING GOT LOST IN THE END, THAT'S UNFORTUNATE ON OUR PART AND THE COUNTY'S PART.
BUT WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO KEEP KIDS FROM HAVING A GREAT TIME.
SO WE WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING TO ADVERSELY AFFECT CHILDREN.
AND THIS TUR CERTAINLY WILL NOT DO THAT.
IT WILL ONLY SERVE TO ENHANCE THIS ENTIRE AREA.
BUT I'M HAPPY TO FACILITATE A MEETING WITH THE DEVELOPER AND THE COUNTY AND THE CITY AND TRY TO WORK THROUGH ALL THAT STUFF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
WELL, SO FAR AS WE KNOW, THE DEVELOPER DOESN'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC CASH AND CONCRETE PLANS FOR WHAT TO DO WITH THAT PIECE OF LAND.
OH, AND, AND THE PROPER NEEDS EASEMENTS FROM THE COUNTY, RIGHT? THERE'S LEVERAGE FROM THE COUNTY SIDE.
AND ALSO IF I WERE THE DEVELOPER, I WOULD BE LOOKING TO THE CITY AND THE COUNTY TO SEE WHAT SORT OF PLANS THE COUNTY, WHAT SORT OF PLANS YOU HAVE FOR THAT.
EVEN IF WE DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY, WHAT SORT OF THINGS COULD WE DO TOGETHER ON THAT PROPERTY TO MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE? AND I WILL JUST ADD, WE HAD SPECIFIC CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CREATING SOME SYNERGY BETWEEN THAT DEVELOPMENT AND THE COUNTY, RIGHT.
AND ASKED FOR THE COUNTY TO PARTICIPATE AT A HIGHER LEVEL.
THE COUNTY WASN'T WILLING TO DO THAT.
AND SO THAT PORTION OF ENHANCING THE SHOW BARN ON TURNER'S MONEY AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS FELL OFF TO THE WAYSIDE.
SO NONE OF THAT STUFF IS DEAD.
AND I, THAT'S WHAT I THINK WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, BUT YOU KNOW, I, WE'VE GOT TO CONTINUE TO WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE THOSE THINGS.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT, YOUR PRECINCT, MIKE? AND IT'S, I MAY HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS BEFORE WE VOTE ON THIS COUNCIL THING, WHAT I'M THINKING IF IT'S, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, PASSED FOR TODAY AND GIVE Y'ALL THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS WITH THE DEVELOPER? AND IT DOESN'T BY, IT'S JUST GOING
[01:40:01]
TO, YOU KNOW, DELAY THE PROCESS AND WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE THIS THROUGH SO WE CAN GET THE DEVELOPMENT GOING THROUGH.AND I DON'T KNOW THAT SQUARING UP THOSE LANDS BETWEEN COUNTY OWNED PROPERTY AND DEVELOP OUR OWN PROPERTY SHOULD HANDS ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU DO AN AMENDMENT TO AURS THAT YOU'VE ALREADY AGREED TO AND CREATED.
AND TWO OF THE COMMISSIONERS VOTED IS WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY TO APPROVE IT.
UM, WELL I'LL CALL THE QUESTION THEN.
UM, SO WHAT WE HAVE BEFORE US IS TO CONSIDER APPROVING AMENDMENT NUMBER ONE, TO ENTER LOCAL AGREEMENT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE TAX, UH, REINVESTMENT ZONE.
NUMBER TWO, CITY OF KAUFMAN, TEXAS AMENDMENT NUMBER ONE.
IS THERE A MOTION TO DO THAT AS A BOARD MEMBER OF THAT TERMS? I'LL MAKE THE MOTION JUDGE.
COMMISSIONER KATES MOVES TO APPROVE.
IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT.
SO THAT MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KATES IS SECOND BY ME.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
NO, I HAVEN'T ASKED FOR THOSE OPPOSED YET.
WELL, I SAID, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE OPPOSED, OPPOSED.
I'LL SAY NO, MR. HUNT, MAYBE THEY CAN FIGURE IT OUT AND SAY NO NEXT MONTH.
SO WE HAVE TWO EYES AND THREE NO'S.
[6. Commissioner Phillips; Discuss/Consider reappointing Bruce Bynum to the Kaufman County Appraisal Board. ]
ITEM SIX.COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS, DISCUSS, CONSIDER REAPPOINTING BRUCE BONHAM TO THE KAUFMAN COUNTY APPRAISAL BOARD.
YEAH, THAT'S, UM, PRESIDENT OF CITIBANK, YOU KNOW, HE'S ON THE, HE'S ON THE APPRAISAL BOARD.
HE WAS, HE IS MY CHOICE A FEW YEARS AGO.
CAUSE UH, BRUCE WOOD MOVED ONE OVER THERE BECAUSE OF THE POPULATION IN THE AREA.
AND HIS DEGREE IS IN FINANCE AND HE'S A BANK FINANCIAL.
AND HIS UNDERGRAD, HE WAS IN APPRAISAL.
SO HE SOUNDED LIKE A PRETTY GOOD, UH, PERSON I APPOINTED AND I'D LIKE TO KEEP HIM ON THE BOARD.
HE, THEY SEEMED TO BE DOING A GOOD JOB OF RAISING THE MONEY AND DOING THE TAXES PROPERLY.
I DON'T HERE NEAR AS MUCH COMPLAINTS OUTTA THE APPRAISAL BOARD AS WE DID A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
SO PUT THAT IN A FORM OF MOTION.
I'M MAKING THAT IN THE FORM OF MOTION TO WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, WELL, LET'S, WE GOT A MOTION.
WE'LL HAVE A SECOND THEN WE'LL HAVE DISCUSSION.
IS THERE A SECOND TO, UH, TO COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS MOTION? I SECOND.
UH, WE HAVE THE SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER BARBARA DISCUSSION.
I, I JUST WANNA GET ON THE RECORD, LIKE I SAID LAST TIME, AND SKE, I, WE'VE MANNERED ABOUT THIS AND BANNERED ABOUT THIS, BUT I THINK THE WAY IT WAS SET UP THAT THE TAXING ORGANIZATIONS THAT THEY WORK FOR IS SET UP WHERE A REPRESENTATIVE OF ONE OF US, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE ALL ON THAT BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
ALL THEY DO IS SET THE BUDGET AND HIRE THE CHIEF APPRAISER.
BUT I STILL THINK THAT SINCE IT'S OUR MONEY THAT WE'RE FUNDING THE BUDGET WITH THAT WE NEED TO HAVE REPRESENTATION.
EACH OF THE ENTITIES NEED TO HAVE REPRESENTATION AND NOT HAND IT OFF TO SOMEONE ELSE.
I, I'D ALSO LIKE TO CONCUR WITH THE COMMISSIONER HUNT.
I THINK THAT, UH, UH, REGARDLESS OF, UH, WHAT FEEDBACK THAT YOU GET IN PRECINCT TWO, IN PRECINCT FOUR, I'VE GOTTEN A TON OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ABOUT THE APPRAISAL PROCESS.
AND, AND, UH, WHILE THE BOARD DOESN'T HAVE ANY DIRECT INVOLVEMENT IN THAT, UH, THE BOARD STILL, UH, DOES SET THEIR BUDGET AND THE BOARD ALSO, UH, HIRES AND FIRES THE CHIEF APPRAISER.
UH, I BELIEVE THAT, UH, THAT THIS COMMISSIONER'S COURT OUGHTA HAD AN, HAVE AN ELECTED, A CITIZEN ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE ON THE BOARD.
UH, I I THINK THAT'S, UH, THAT'S REALLY INCUMBENT ON THIS ORGANIZATION TO HAVE SOMEONE THAT'S RESPONSIBLE TO THE VOTERS.
AND, UH, SECONDLY, UH, I'VE BEEN HERE FOUR YEARS AND I'VE NEVER SEEN A REPORT FROM OUR REPRESENTATIVE TO THE APPRAISAL BOARD BEFORE THIS COURT ABOUT, UH, WHAT THEIR DELIBERATIONS ARE OR WHAT THEIR CONSIDERATIONS ARE.
SO I I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE THE COURT TO CONSIDER, UH, ACTUALLY APPOINTING A REPRESENTATIVE THAT'S A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT.
WELL, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S, I, I THINK, I THINK THAT, UH, THAT'S PROBABLY ONE BOARD WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T SET ON.
UH, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION BECAUSE WE DO HAVE, THE TAX ASSESSOR IS ON THE BOARD.
[01:45:01]
THAT'S NOT, IT'S A NONVOTING BOARD MEMBER.IT IS, BUT THEY'RE, THERE'S AN OBSERVER.
THEY ARE OUR EYES AND EARS OF THE APPRAISAL BOARD.
THAT'S THE WAY IT'S SET UP BY LAW.
BUT THEY DON'T VOTE AND YEAH, THEY DON'T VOTE.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING SOMEONE ON THERE TOO THAT REPRESENTS US THAT CAN VOTE.
I MATTER OF FACT, I JUST GOT A TEXT FROM A ONE OF MY CONSTITUENTS ABOUT A TAX ISSUE AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S AN APPRAISAL THING THAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.
AND THAT'S THE VERY THING IS, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T TALK APPRAISAL WITH THEM.
I MEAN THEY, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN'T DO.
I MEAN, THEY, THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB.
I MEAN, THIS IS HOW I FEEL THAT I'M PRETTY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT, BUT, BUT IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.
AND IF THIS COURT DECIDES TO APPOINT SOMEBODY, I'M OKAY WITH THAT TOO.
BUT I TRULY FEEL THAT EVERY TIME WE'VE DONE THIS, I'VE SAID THAT I'VE GIVEN MY SPIEL, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST FELT LIKE I NEEDED TO DO IT AGAIN.
AND, BUT WHATEVER WE DECIDE AS A COURT WILL GO WITH NOW, I HAD THE CHANCE TO MEET, I'M SORRY, I HAD THE CHANCE TO MEET WITH BRUCE, BRIAN BUYING HIM A COUPLE OF TIMES, JUST, UH, INTRODUCTION SORT OF THINGS.
I HAVEN'T, IT'S BEEN A COUPLE YEARS AGO, BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD.
THERE'S TWO THINGS I WOULD SAY ABOUT APPOINTING HIM.
NUMBER ONE IS IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
AND I THINK THE APPRAISAL BOARD IS, IS WELL MANAGED.
I THINK ROBERT DOBBS HAS DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB AT, AND THEY, THEY STAY IN THEIR LANE.
THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR JOB IS.
AND UH, AND BRUCE IS AN EXCEPTIONAL PERSON.
HE, I'M SURE THAT, I WOULD JUST ALMOST GUARANTEE YOU THAT HE READS ALL THE MATERIAL BEFORE THEIR MEETINGS.
HE'S A VERY, AND SO I, I THINK IT WOULD BE A LOSS TO LOSE HIM.
UM, AND I, FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW THAT A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE ARE ELECTED POLITICIANS AND I THINK THIS JOB CALLS FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS DISCONNECTED FROM POLITICS.
I MEAN, I JUST, I REALLY THINK IT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
I THINK ANYTIME THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO, IF YOU'RE ELECTED TO THIS OFFICE AND NOW YOU WANT TO GO SIT ON ANOTHER BOARD THAT WE ACTUALLY, UH, POINT THE PEOPLE.
RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW, IF SOMEBODY ASKED ME ABOUT IT, I SAY WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT.
AND WE DON'T, THE STATE OPERATES THE APPRAISAL BOARD AND WE HAVE NO GOVERNING FACTOR OVER 'EM EXCEPT THE, TO APPROVE THEIR BUDGET JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TAXING AGENCY IN THIS COUNTY.
UH, SO I, YOU KNOW, I JUST, I JUST THINK IT'S A, UH, I THINK IT'S JUST A REAL KIND OF CONFLICT.
I JUST, I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD THING.
UH, IN FACT, THEY KIND OF NOTIFIED US AND TOLD US IF WE WANT TO TALK, WE HAVE TO TAKE EVERYTHING STRAIGHT TO THE BOARD BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO REALLY EITHER THAT OR HIRE OUTSIDE PEOPLE TO, TO DO OUR OWN IF WE WANT TO PROTEST IT.
I MEAN, HOW YOU GONNA PROTEST YOUR OWN TAXES IF YOU'RE ON THE APPRAISAL BOARD? YOU KNOW? YOU KNOW, I'M SORRY.
IT'S JUST, WELL, AGAIN, I THINKS REALLY A BIG CONFLICT THING.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT THE FUNCTION OF THE BOARD IS.
IT DOES NOT, DOES NOT HAVE AN APPRAISAL FUNCTION.
IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE OVERSIGHT BODY.
AND, UH, SO WE, UM, WE GET TO LOOK AT THAT.
WE REALLY HAVE, UH, AT A MINIMUM.
AND AGAIN, THERE'S MY NO NO DISPARITY TO, TO BRUCE.
I, I CONCUR A HUNDRED PERCENT THAT HE'S A, YOU KNOW, A STELLAR INDIVIDUAL.
BUT, UH, WE HAVE, AT LEAST IN MY FOUR YEARS, WE'VE HAD NO, NO BRIEFING ABOUT THEIR, UH, DELIBERATIONS OR THEIR, THEIR DIRECTION.
AND FRANKLY, THE, UH, THE SYSTEM AS IT'S ESTABLISHED ALREADY PUTS THAT SEPARATION, UH, IN, IN THE MERE FACT THAT THE BOARD DOESN'T HAVE ANY APPRAISAL AUTHORITY THAT ALREADY BUILDS IN THE, THE, UH, THE CHINESE WALL, IF YOU WILL, THAT WOULD PRECLUDE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN MY OPINION.
I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THE PUBLIC WOULD UN I MEAN THE PUBLIC DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.
I MEAN, THIS IS THE WAY THIS IS ALL ARRANGED WITH THE APPRAISAL AND THE TAXING AND ALL THAT IS PRETTY COMPLICATED.
ANYWAY, I THINK IF ONE OF US WERE SITTING ON THAT BOARD, PEOPLE WOULD COME TO US AND WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEIR APPRAISAL.
WELL THEY, THEY COME TO US NOW ANYWAY.
BUT WE'RE NOT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY OVER THEM.
BUT IF WE WERE A BOARD MEMBER, WE WOULD, YOU WOULD STILL HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER THEIR APPRAISAL.
YOU'LL NEVER MAKE 'EM UNDERSTAND THAT.
[01:50:01]
BUT, AND THIS IS, IF, IF WE DO THIS, WE SAID THIS LAST TIME THAT OUR REPRESENTATIVE WOULD GIVE A REPORT TO US.YOU KNOW, I WAS AT A CITY MEETING AND ACTUALLY THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BUYING PART OF THE PROPERTY SOME, A PIECE OF THE PROPERTY BY WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BUILD A SCHOOL TO BUILD A NEW TAX APPRAISAL DEAL.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT KINDA STUFF REALLY NEEDS TO GET TO US.
IF THEY NEED A NEW BUILDING OR MORE ROOM AND STUFF LIKE THAT, INSTEAD OF JUST, IT WOULD HAVE TO COME TO US.
CAUSE THEY GOTTA GET APPROVAL FROM, I MEAN, IF THEY'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT PROPERTY AND, AND LOCATIONS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THEN THEY'RE WELL AHEAD OF EVEN BRIEFING US OF THE POSSIBILITY.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE MISS IF WE'RE NOT THERE.
AND LIKE I SAY, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS THE GUY COMES AND WHEN STUFF LIKE THAT HAPPENS THAT WE KNOW ABOUT IT AHEAD OF TIME, ARE THEIR NEEDS AHEAD OF TIME WELL IN ADVANCE.
SO WE CAN START PLANNING SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR OR TWO YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, OR AT LEAST HAVING THE BACK OF OUR HEADS THAT WE'VE GOT TO PUT IT ON THE CHECK LIST.
I WOULD AT LEAST REQUEST FOR REAL THIS TIME THAT WE GET A QUARTERLY REPORT OR SOMETHING.
I MEAN, LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT IT.
AND, AND IF I REMEMBER ROBERT DOBBS SAID THAT HE WOULD MAKE SURE THE BOARD DID THAT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BUT WELL DIDN'T HAPPEN.
BRUCE BONUM IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE.
AND I WOULD SAY THAT THE MOTION TO, I THINK THE MOTION COULD INCLUDE DID HE BE REAPPOINTED CONTINGENT ON THE FACT THAT WE RECEIVE A REPORT? I DON'T THINK WE NEED A QUARTERLY REPORT.
WELL, THAT WE RECEIVE A REPORT ON AT LEAST AN ANNUAL BASIS.
WELL THEN, OR BIANNUAL, BIANNUAL, BI-ANNUAL BASIS.
I THINK, IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THAT MATTER? ATTORNEY? NO, JUDGE.
I CAN AMEND MY MOTION TO SAY THAT.
SO THEN I'LL STATE YOUR MOTION.
SO COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS IS MOVING TO, UH, REAPPOINT BRUCE BONHAM TO THE KAUFMAN COUNTY AS OUR REPRESENTATIVE, THE KAUFMAN COUNTY APPRAISAL BOARD, CONTINGENT ON THE FACT THAT WE RECEIVE A BIANNUAL REPORT DIRECTLY FROM HIM.
IS THAT YOUR MOTION? THAT'S MY MOTION.
IS THERE A SECOND? NO, SECOND.
COMMISSIONER BARBARA, DISCUSSION THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
THOSE OPPOSED? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES.
[7. Bobby Bridges; Present updates on Animal Shelter, Justice Center, and all new construction projects in Kaufman County, ]
RIGHT.ITEM SEVEN, IT'LL BE LUNCH TIME HERE IN A MINUTE.
HEY, BEFORE YOU GET STARTED, I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND PAT YOUR BACK.
THE CHRISTMAS TRAILER'S GREAT.
YOU'VE FALLEN TOLD ME
I MEAN, WE JUST GOT BUSY AND WE DIDN'T, BUT Y'ALL PICKED UP THE BALL, Y'ALL RAN WITH IT AND DID A GREAT JOB.
NO, NAH, JUST MESSING WITH ME.
I WAS LIKE, I WAS HERE SATURDAY, IT WORKED.
SO I'LL START OFF WITH THE, UH, THE PE CENTER.
UM, I TALKED TO GREG, THEY DID SOME TESTING.
THE TESTING CAME BACK, NOTHING, NO BIG ISSUES THERE.
HE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO MORE TESTING AND THEY WOULD GET BACK WITH US.
UM, WHAT ARE THEY TESTING BY THE SOIL OR, YES SIR.
SOIL SAMPLES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
UM, SO HE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME GUTTER ISSUES THAT THEY, THEY WERE RESOLVING, UM, BUT FROM RIGHT NOW, FROM THE TESTING THEY'VE DONE, THEY HAD, AND THEY SAID THEY'D MOVE 'EM AWAY FROM THE MILL AND WHERE THEY WERE GOING.
EVEN THOUGH IT RUNS DOWNHILL ALREADY OVER THERE, I'M THINKING MAY NOT BE GETTING AWAY FROM THE, GETTING AWAY FROM THE CRACKS.
THE GROUND WATER JUST GOES, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT HE SAID LAST WEEK TOO, JUDGE, YOU KNOW, THE SUMMER, YOU KNOW, THOSE CRACKS WERE ALL THERE FROM THE, AND THEN WHEN IT DID RAIN, ALL THE WATER WENT INTO THOSE CRACKS AND EVERYTHING, HE WAS BACK INSIDE.
SO, LIKE I SAID THE OTHER DAY, WE SHOULD HAVE BUILT IT IN ARIZONA.
SO ON THAT ISSUE, UM, I WILL SAY THIS, THE, UH, GALLAGHER I THINK HAS DECIDED TO GO WITH A DIFFERENT FOUNDATION VOYAGE SYSTEM IN FORNEY.
THAT'S A GOOD REASON FOR THAT.
AND IT'S NOT, I MEAN, IT'S SORT OF SIMILAR, BUT IT IS DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT COMPANY, DIFFERENT VOID SYSTEM.
SO, SO THAT IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES THERE.
I JUST WANT YOU GUYS TO KNOW THAT THEY DID CHANGE THAT AND THEY ARE GOING WITH A DIFFERENT VOID SYSTEM AND DIFFERENT COMPANY IN 40, AND THEY DID START DRILLING PIERS AT THE SUBSTATION IN 42.
SO, UM, AND AS YOU ALL KNOW, TODAY'S THE GRAND OPENING OR THE GROUNDBREAKING.
THE GROUNDBREAKING SAY THAT, RIGHT.
THEY ARE FOLLOWING UP WITH, UH, TWO O'CLOCK THE ANIMAL SHELTER.
NOW, THE PICTURE THAT I SAW WITH THE DOOR, THAT WAS A FIRE EXIT, RIGHT? THAT THE DOOR WOULD NOT OPEN.
[01:55:01]
THOSE THINGS ARE BEEN, HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED.WELL, UH, THEY'RE RUNNING THEM THROUGH, WE ARE RUNNING THEM THROUGH GALL.
YOU GOT THE PUBLIC IN THERE NOW USING A BUILDING.
THE FIRES CAME DOOR DOESN'T OPEN.
SO GREG, GREG SAID THAT HE WAS LOOKING AT THE, THE DRAWINGS AND FROM WHAT HE CAN TELL IS, IS THAT THE SIDEWALKS AROUND THE BUILDING AND THE EXIT SIDEWALKS WERE RAISIN.
WELL, YEAH, THEY'RE HEAVING UP.
BUT IN THE DESIGN OF 'EM, THEY WERE DESIGNED TO BE JUST TO COMPACT THE GROUND AND PUT CONCRETE OVER 'EM.
THEY WEREN'T PART OF THE FOUNDATION OF THE SLAB.
UM, SO THAT THERE COULD BE ONE OF THE BIGGER ISSUES THERE.
UM, AND REALLY RIGHT NOW, THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THAT IS TO GO AHEAD AND GO AND CUT THAT CONCRETE OUT, REMOVE IT, LOWER IT DOWN, ADD NEW CONCRETE, UH, COULD, COULD LOWER IT DOWN AND MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT OF A STEP DOWN AND THEN IT NEVER COME UP.
SO GALLAGHER IS STILL WORKING ON THAT ISSUE.
WELL, MY QUESTION IS HOW LONG, HOW LONG DO WE HAVE FOR THEM TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON IT AND CONTINUE TO COVER IT? SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT'S MARCH.
IF YOU IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD, THEY, IF THEY DON'T GET IT FIXED, THEY STILL, THEY CARRY THAT LIABILITY UNTIL IT'S RESOLVED.
IT'S RESOLVED, CORRECT? YEAH, I I'M, WELL, I, I'M GONNA CLARIFY.
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, JUDGE.
OH, IN TWO YEARS OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW? FOREVER.
SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, WE TOOK OWNERSHIP OF THAT BUILDING IN MARCH.
I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY AND PROBABLY, BUT IT'S A, IT'S A ONE YEAR, SO IT, IT WOULD RESOLVE IN MARCH ON THE WARRANTY SIDE OF IT.
UM, SO THAT'S KIND OF OUR BIG DEAL THERE.
WE'RE ON TOP OF IT, WE'RE WORKING WITH GREG, WE'RE WORKING WITH GALL AND I, YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO SEE THAT GALL HAS TAKING IT TO THE TOP, AND NOW MR. VAUGHN IS INVOLVED IN IT AND HE'S, HE'S WORKING THIS ISSUE.
SO WE DO HAVE THE BALL ROLLING ON THIS AND WE SHOULD GET RESOLUTION ON IT.
UM, AS FOR THE, UH, THE JAIL, I MEAN, I'M SORRY, THE, UH, THE JUSTICE CENTER, AS Y'ALL KNOW TODAY IS THE GEL INSPECTION.
AND THAT'S WHERE BRIAN BEAVERS IS AT SHERIFF TODAY.
AND, UH, IF THAT GOES WELL, WHICH WE ALL HAVE FAITH THAT IT WILL, UH, THE SHERIFF FELT GOOD ABOUT IT.
EVERYBODY FELT REALLY GOOD ABOUT IT.
BUT WE HAVE STARTED THE MOVE PROCESS.
SO YESTERDAY, UM, SOUTHWEST SOLUTIONS CAME TO THEIR WALKTHROUGH.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE GETTING GOING, UH, MOVE SOLUTIONS IS HERE TODAY, DROPPING OFF ALL THE CONTAINERS FOR EVERYBODY TO BOX THEIR STUFF UP.
UM, THERE'S LIKE 860 SOMETHING CONTAINERS FOR PEOPLE TO USE, SO WE SHOULD HAVE PLENTY.
UM, SO THAT MOVE IS, IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
UNLESS JUDGE COMES BACK AND SAYS, WE DIDN'T PASS INSPECTION, WASH YOUR MOUTH.
THAT WAS SO, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA SAY THAT THERE'S SOME SOAP BACK THERE,
NO, I'M, I'M, I'M 98% CONFIDENT THAT THEY'RE, THAT.
I MEAN, I TALKED TO GREG ABOUT IT THIS MORNING.
I WENT OVER THERE TO MET THE JAIL STANDARDS TEAM WHEN THEY CAME OVER THERE AND, UH, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM, RIGHT? SO FROM TODAY FORWARD, WE'RE FULL STEAM AHEAD ON PUSHING THE MOVE, PUSHING THE MOVE.
AND THAT MOVE IS STILL SCHEDULED FOR, UH, THE 19TH THROUGH THE 30TH AND WE HAVE THE 31ST AVAILABLE IF NEEDED.
UM, THE FIRST WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE, OBVIOUSLY, BOBBY, JUST TO REITERATE WHAT THAT EMAIL THAT WE, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT I SENT OUT, BASED ON OUR CONVERSATION, THE COURTHOUSE WILL CLOSE ON THE 16TH.
AND THAT COURTHOUSE WON'T BE OPEN AGAIN TO THE PUBLIC AFTER THAT.
BOBBY'S PROVIDING SIGNAGE IN BOTH LANGUAGES AND, UM, THE, ON THE 26TH, 27TH AND 28TH, 27TH, 27TH, 28TH, 20, 27TH, 28TH, 29TH.
27TH, 28TH, AND 29TH STAFF UP TO THE DEPARTMENT HEADS.
BUT THAT THE STAFF SHOULD REPORT TO THAT BUILDING.
IT WILL NOT BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, BUT THAT'S GONNA GIVE US THREE DAYS TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS WORKING.
IF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE AND ADDITIONAL, WE'LL HAVE THREE DAYS TO GET THAT ALL STRAIGHTENED OUT AND THEN WE'LL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC ON THAT BUILDING WILL BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC FOR FULL SERVICE ON JANUARY 3RD.
I JUST WANT TO REEMPHASIZE THAT CUZ I KNOW LOTS OF COUNTY PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO THIS CONVERSATION.
SO OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE COUNTY'S OFF THE 22ND AND THE 23RD AND THE 26TH, WHICH IS THURSDAY, FRIDAY AND A MONDAY.
SO THAT LEAVES THE TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, WHICH IS THE 27TH THROUGH THE 30TH FOR THE EMPLOYEES TO COME BACK, UNBOX THEIR CRATES, PUT
[02:00:01]
ALL THEIR STUFF UP, UM, YOU KNOW, GO OFF FOR THE OTHER HOLIDAY WEEKEND, GET ON BACK ON THE THIRD AND OPEN UP FOR BUSINESS.BUT THEY'LL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO SURE.
THEY COVER, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A CHAIR MISSING OR IF THERE'S THERE, YOU KNOW, THERE INEVITABLY WILL BE SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF.
AND SO WE'LL HAVE, WE'LL HAVE, THEY'LL HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO GET ALL THAT STUFF STRAIGHTENED OUT.
I MEAN, EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS YOU'VE MOVED BEFORE IN YOUR PAST.
SO WHEN YOU MOVE, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS HAPPEN, WHATEVER.
BUT I MEAN, I, I REALLY ANTICIPATE THIS TO GO PRETTY SMOOTHLY.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I MEAN, WITH THE CRATES AND THE LABELS AND THE WAY IT'S SET UP TO RUN, THIS SHOULD RUN REALLY SMOOTH.
UM, ONE THING THAT WE DID SAY IS, IS, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOUR GRANDKIDS MADE YOU A PLASTER HAND FROM KINDERGARTEN AND THAT'S 30 YEARS AGO, PLEASE TAKE THAT HOME.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? DON'T, DON'T PUT THAT IN A CRAY AND, AND THEN HOPE THAT IT DOESN'T GET BROKE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BECAUSE I MEAN, STUFF LIKE THAT HAPPENS.
SO, I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE VALUABLE ITEMS THAT YOU FEEL LIKE THAT ARE SENTIMENTAL TO YOU, PLEASE TAKE 'EM HOME.
YOU KNOW? UM, AND AS, AS WE STAND RIGHT NOW, JUDGE, WE ARE STILL ON THE NO OR NOT BRINGING ANY FURNITURE FROM THE COURTHOUSE.
THAT'S, AND, AND IF THERE IS ADDITIONAL FURNITURE NEEDED, WE'LL HAVE THREE, FOUR DAYS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACCOMMODATE THAT OUT BY NO
SO AS FOR THE UPDATES THERE, SO ON THE CHILDREN'S SHELTER, WE'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS.
I MEAN, I KNOW THIS KIND IS DRAGGING OUT, BUT WHEN WE, WHEN WE STARTED THIS PROCESS, WE TOLD DAVID THAT WE REALLY DIDN'T WANNA START IT UNTIL THE NEW YEAR BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S GOING ON WITH, UH, THE MOVES AND THE CURRENT WORK ORDER LOAD THAT WE HAD.
SO WE'RE WORKING ON THE CHILDREN'S SHELTER.
UM, THE GOAL IS TO BE DONE WITH THAT BY THE END OF THIS YEAR, UH, IF NOT SOONER, WITH THE MOVE GOING.
UM, I'M GONNA DEDICATE AT LEAST ONE GUY THAT WILL BE WITH OVER HERE AT THIS COURTHOUSE, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT THE DOORS, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE CAN GET IN AND OUT, MAKE SURE THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THE ELEVATOR, STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO I'M GONNA BE DOWN ONE GUY WITH IT BEING THE WINTER SEASON, I'M PROBABLY GONNA END UP USING, UH, THE LAWN CARE GUY, THE GUY THAT'S STILL IN THE LAWN STUFF.
SO WE'LL JUST PUT HIM OVER THERE.
AND THAT STILL LEAVES ME WITH THREE GUYS TO RUN EMERGENCY CALLS AND WORK ORDERS.
SO, AND I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO SLOW DOWN ON THE WORK ORDER STUFF DURING THE MOVE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS HAS TO GO ON.
SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE WENT TO THE, UH, EOC THIS MORNING BECAUSE THE URINAL WAS STOPPED UP.
UM, SOMEBODY SPIT TOBACCO DOWN IT AND STOPPED IT UP.
SO, BUT, SO I MEAN, THERE'S THINGS LIKE THAT THAT WE GOTTA DO, WE GOTTA MAINTAIN.
SO, SO LET, LEMME JUST ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE CHILDREN'S CENTER CAUSE I WAS JUST OVER THERE THIS WEEK.
SO, SO IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE THAT THERE'S A, SOME SORT OF ORGANIZATIONAL PROBLEM BECAUSE YOU HAVE ONE BATHROOM SINCE JULY OR SO THAT HAS BEEN TORN OUT.
NO, WE DIDN'T START THAT IN JULY.
WELL, WE DIDN'T START IT UNTIL AFTER IT WAS OCTOBER, END OF OCTOBER.
WELL, THE DIRECTOR SAYS HE STARTED IN JULY, SO I'LL JUST REPORT WHAT HE SAID.
UH, BUT THAT HAS RENDERED ONE QUAD ROOM INOPERATIVE, AND THEN THAT HAS PRECLUDED US FROM STARTING THE REMODEL IN ANOTHER BATHROOM THAT, THAT SERVICES A QUAD ROOM.
AND THAT QUAD ROOM IS OPERATIVE BECAUSE, UH, MATERIAL FOR THAT BATHROOM REMODEL IS STORED IN THE QUAD ROOM.
SO IT JUST SEEMS LIKE WE NEED TO PRIORITIZE THAT.
AND, AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS MAY NOT BE A FACILITIES ISSUE, BUT, UH, THE DIRECTOR WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO JUST WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, THEY RAISED THEIR OWN MONEY TO CONTRACT THOSE KIND OF RENOVATIONS THEMSELVES AND NOT USE COUNTY EMPLOYEES FOR THAT AND BE ABLE TO, UH, HAVE SOMEBODY THAT COULD BE DEDICATED TO THOSE PROJECTS.
AND IT SURE SEEMS TO ME LIKE THAT WE NEED TO PRIORITIZE, UH, THE AVAILABLE SPACE AT THAT CHILDREN'S CENTER.
SO JUDGE, UH, MAYBE YOU CAN EDUCATE ME, UH, IS THERE A REASON WHY THE CHILDREN'S SHELTER COULD NOT CONTRACT A PRIVATE IF THEY'VE GOT THE, IF THEY'VE GOT THE FUNDS? NO, I MEAN, WELL, LET ME REPHRASE THAT.
THE CHILDREN'S SHELTER COULD PAY FOR IT.
I WOULD NOT ADVOCATE FOR THEM DOING THE, I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR THEM GO THROUGH PURCHASING, RIGHT? I I, YEAH.
I JUST WANNA MAKE CLEAR, MAKE THAT CLEAR.
THEY DON'T NEED TO BE DOING THAT THEMSELVES.
BUT THEY COULD GO THROUGH PURCHASING TO GET A CONTRACTOR TO COME IN AND DO WHATEVER WORK IF THEY'VE GOT THE FUNDS FOR IT.
WELL, THAT, I MEAN, THEY, THEY REPORT, THEY HAVE THE FUNDS.
AND THAT WOULD SEEM TO ME TO BE THE SOLUTION TO FREE UP YOUR THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE VERY CRITICAL GUYS.
DID YOU GET RIGHT BACK INTO THE CAMP AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
SO NOW WE'VE LIVED THROUGH THAT CRISIS, HOPEFULLY ALL TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE, THE CONSTRUCTION CAP WORKS, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU CAN SPEND, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO, SO BASICALLY COMMISSIONER CASE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
SO THE PROBLEM IS, IS THESE, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, RIGHT? SO YOU DON'T, I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CASSETTE CONTRACT WITH
[02:05:01]
A, UH, CONSTRUCTION COMPANY THAT'S WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE BIDDING PROCESS AND THEY'RE, THIS IS THE, THIS IS WHO THE COUNTY USES.WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HIRE SOMEBODY TO COME DOWN THERE AND PUT A NEW ROOF ON YOUR, AND THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL, ABSOLUTELY.
BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HIRE SOMEBODY TO PUT A ROOF ON IN PRECINCT FOUR AND SKEETE MAY HIRE SOMEBODY TO COME ADD ON TO A SIDE OF A BUILDING OVER HERE.
CAUSE HE NEEDS MORE OFFICE SPACE AND COMMISSIONER HUNT.
UM, YOU KNOW, HE MAY, HE NEEDS AN AWNING.
WE'VE BEEN, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS AWNING FOR TWO YEARS, UH, AND JUST HE SAYS, HEY, WE'RE JUST GONNA HIRE SOMEBODY TO DO THAT.
AND IT'S THE SAME, YOU KNOW, IF EVERYBODY IS, IS USING THE SAME GUY AND IT ENDS UP COMING OVER THE $50,000 BUDGET, THAT'S, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
UM, SO BY HAVING, THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR PURCHASING.
WHAT THEY CAN PUT OUT RFQ, I MEAN, I, I DON'T THINK WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS IN ANY WAY TO ALTER, UH, OUR PURCHASING PROCESS.
AND, AND BY BEING ABLE TO DO THAT AND BRING THOSE, BRING THOSE APPROVALS BEFORE THE COURT, WE, WE ADDRESS THE CAP.
WE ADDRESS THOSE CAP I AGREE WITH YOU.
I WAS JUST EXPLAINING ABOUT HOW THEY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS.
YEAH, I WAS JUST EXPLAINING THAT TO, TO THE JUDGE.
YOU KNOW, BACK TO THE ROOT ISSUE IS JUST LIKE, WE JUST HAD THIS PRESENTATION ABOUT HOW CRITICAL, UH, JUVENILE, UH, ISSUES ARE.
THE SPACE IN THAT CHILDREN'S SHELTER IS CRITICAL AND FOR MONTHS IT'S BEEN UNUSABLE.
SO WE, WE NEED TO ADVANCE THAT PROCESS.
AND AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO CRITICIZE YOU ONLY GOT A HANDFUL OF GUYS, UH, A FULL BATHROOM RENOVATION.
AND THEN TO MOVE TO TWO OTHER BATHROOMS THAT NEED TO BE RENOVATED.
THOSE ARE BIG PROJECTS THAT I DON'T THINK REALLY, UH, SERVE OUR COMMUNITY BY BEING DRAGGED OUT FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS OR YEARS.
SO I THINK THROUGH THE PURCHASING OFFICE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE COULD ADDRESS THE CAP ISSUE FOR THOSE BATHROOM RENOVATIONS TO GET THOSE FACILITIES, UH, OPEN AND, AND FUNCTIONAL AGAIN.
DOES, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, JUDGE, DO YOU KNOW, DOES THE COUNTY OWN THE BUILDING OR DO WE JUST OWN THE LAND ACCORDING TO THOSE? ACCORDING TO, ACCORDING TO THEM, THEY SAY WE OWN THE LAND, THEY OWN THE BUILDING.
BUT WE'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE.
WE'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE AND IT'S SO CONVOLUTED.
I'M TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT WE DECIDED.
I THINK THERE'S NO, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SUPPORTING DEED RECORDS.
IT'S NOT, THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY THE PROBLEM.
AND SO BASICALLY THE COUNTY MAINTAINS, AND SO WE ACTUALLY, WE PROBABLY OWN IT CAUSE WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE A LEASE.
I MEAN, THEY DON'T HAVE A LEASE, BUT WE HAVE A LEASE ON THE LAND.
QUESTION IS, THE QUESTION IS, THERE'S NO DEED, THERE'S REALLY NO RECORDS ON THE BUILDING.
BUT WE DO MAINTAIN IT AS A COUNTY BUILDING.
THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY ANSWER.
I I, WELL, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
IF THEY WERE AMENABLE, COULDN'T WE TAKE SOME ACTION OR COULDN'T THIS COURT TAKE SOME ACTION TO DEED THAT PROPERTY TO THE, TO THE BOARD AND ALLOW THEM TO BE ESSENTIALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT? UH, THE DIRECTOR TOLD ME THAT THEY HAVE ADEQUATE DONATED FUNDS TO ADDRESS THESE PROBLEMS, BUT I THINK WE'RE, HE'S JUST NOT ABLE TO SPEND THE MONEY BECAUSE THE COUNTY OWNS THE BUILDING.
I DON'T WANNA SAY ANYTHING, BUT I THINK WE'RE OFF SUB.
SO I DON'T THINK WE CAN, HE'S JUST DISCUSSING THE BUILDING.
WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT, ABOUT IT.
WE CAN'T, CAN'T MAKE A DECISION THAT IT IS AN OUTFLOW OR AT LEAST IT'S A ROOT CAUSE OF THE, THE DELAY IN CONSTRUCTION AT THE CHILDREN'S SHELTER.
JACK JUDGE, THE STATE CONTRACT IS WITH THIS COMMISSIONER'S COURT.
THAT'S GOVERNMENT FUNDS THAT COME TO US THAT WE PAY THOSE BILLS.
ROGER, WHEN THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY, THE FOUNDATION WILL GIVE THEM A DONATION TO HELP BECAUSE THEY'RE HAVING TO DO IT ALMOST EVERY MONTH TO KEEP 'EM IN THE BLACK IN THE BOOKS.
SO I'M SURE THE FOUNDATION COULD DO SOMETHING TO HELP WITH IT.
AND A LOT OF IT IS, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THAT THING HAS TO DO WITH, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR, I MEAN, FOR THEM TO, IF THEY CAN HAVE THAT THING AT CAPACITY, THEN IF THEIR ROOMS ARE ALL OCCUPIED WITH, WITH, UH, WITH THE CHILDREN, THAT'S A BIG REVENUE CUZ THEY GET PAID BY THE KID.
SO OUR AGENDA ITEM IS, UM, PRESENT UPDATES ON ANIMAL SHELTER, JUSTICE CENTER, AND ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS IN KAUFMAN COUNTY.
SO WE HAVE TO STICK TO THE AGENDA ITEM.
UH, DO YOU HAVE, I JUST WANNA ADD THAT CAME UP IN THE PAST YEARS AGO.
[02:10:01]
WE GOT INTO TROUBLE BEFORE, AND I'LL, I'LL WE'LL GET OFF OF THIS, BUT I THINK WHERE WE GOT INTO TROUBLE BEFORE WAS, UM, OR SAYING THE BID AND, AND, UH, THERE SOME OF THE CONTRACTS, SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WAS BEING DONE WASN'T BEING, YOU KNOW, THEY ADDED THAT, THAT, UH, JACUZZI, THAT HOT TUB THING AND THEY DID.THEY, THERE WAS STUFF LIKE THAT DONE THAT I DON'T THINK THE COUNTY WOULD'VE EVER HAVE APPROVED OF ANYWAY.
UH, BUT WE PROBABLY JUST NEED TO BRING THIS BACK AS ANOTHER AGENT ITEM.
DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING? NO, SIR.
[8. Sheriff Beavers; Present/Accept Sheriff's Office monthly reports for September and October 2022. ]
SHERIFF REPORTS.HE'S A LITTLE SHORTER, BUT LITTLE BIT SHORTER.
Y'ALL KNOW WHERE THE SHERIFF IS.
UH, HOPEFULLY HE IS GOING GOOD OVER THERE AND WE CAN GET IN THE, THE NEW BUILDING.
UM, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, YOU GUYS HAVE HIS MONTHLY REPORTS FOR SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER? YES.
UH, ONE THING WE'D LIKE TO POINT OUT IS RECOVER PROPERTY IS, UH, 2,344,000, WHICH IS ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS.
UH, PLUS FROM LAST YEAR, UH, AVERAGE CALLS, UH, LAST YEAR WE WERE AT 275.
UH, THIS, THIS YEAR WE'RE AT 368.
UH, SO WE'VE, WE'VE GONE UP QUITE SUBSTANTIALLY, UH, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S MY FORTE AND WHAT I DO, UH, WE'VE SAVED THE COUNTY $3,640, UH, DOING IN-HOUSE TRAINING AND THROUGH OUR INSTRUCTORS PUTTING ON OUR, ON, UH, ACADEMY CLASSES.
UH, TOTAL FINANCIALS WE BROUGHT IN 60,000 6 45, UH, FOR THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER, MONTH OF OCTOBER.
UH, PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING.
UH, RECOVER PROPERTIES ABOUT 2.4 MILLION.
UH, WE ARE AT 369 CALLS AND ONCE AGAIN, WE SAVE THE COUNTY ABOUT $8,000, UH, IN, IN-HOUSE TRAINING, UH, BROUGHT IN A TOTAL REVENUE OF $33,162.
ANY QUESTIONS? THAT, NO QUESTION.
IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE SHERIFF'S MONTHLY REPORT FOR SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
COMMISSIONER BARBER DISCUSSION THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY SAYING AYE.
I OPPOS? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES THIS
[9. Judge Richards; Discuss/Consider accepting donations in the amount of $500 from HOK, and $1000 from Gallagher for use in special events. ]
ITEM IS MINE.UH, DISCUSSED, CONSIDERED ACCEPTING DONATIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF $500 FROM HK ARCHITECTS AND $1,000 FROM GALLAGHER FOR USE IN SPECIAL EVENTS.
UH, DONNA SOLICITED THOSE, UH, DONATIONS FOR THEM FROM BOTH OF THEM TO HELP WITH THE, THE OPEN HOUSE RIBBON CUTTING AND THE GROUNDBREAKING THAT'S TODAY.
AND WE APPRECIATE THEIR HELPING US WITH THAT.
HLK ALSO NOT INCLUDED IN THIS.
THEY PROVIDED THOSE BIG FLOOR PLANS THAT WERE ON EACH FLOOR IN THE JUSTICE CENTER.
UM, IS THERE A MOTION TO ACCEPT DONATIONS AS PRESENTED? WE HAVE THE MOTION COMMISSIONER HUNT.
COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS DISCUSSION.
WAS THAT YOUR MOTION? THAT'S OKAY.
UH, WE HAVE A MOTION TO HAVE THAT MOTION IN A SECOND.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGN IS YOUR DISCUSSION.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
OPPOS? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES
[10. Jack Sebastian; Discuss/Consider Road repair for Pet. 1 Road and Bridge by Texas Bit, per Dallas County interlocal agreement. ]
JACKSON S BASH DISCUSS, CONSIDER ROAD REPAIR FOR PRECINCT ONE ROAD AND BRIDGE BY TEXAS BIT PER DALLAS COUNTY INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT.UH, MR. HUNT HAS A ROAD, HE WANTS REPAIR 1 0 3, AND THAT IS LIKE YOU MENTIONED ON THE TEXAS BIT CONTRACT, WHICH IS A DALLAS COUNTY INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT, UH, FOR $971,881 AND 66 CENTS.
AND I WOULD MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION.
YEAH, THIS, THIS ROAD IS ONE OF THE MAJOR CONNECTORS ACROSS THE WHOLE COMMUNITY OUT THERE.
WE DID THE ROAD SIX YEARS AGO AND, UH, IT NEEDS TO BE REDONE AGAINST SOME SOFT SPOTS TAKEN CARE OF.
SO THIS IS MONEY THAT'S LEFT OVER BOND MONEY THAT'S LEFT OVER FROM THE KAUFMAN TAB PARKWAY JOB.
SO I'M GONNA UTILIZE THAT MOTION.
MAKE THE MOTION, UH, COMMISSIONER HUNT MOVES TO APPROVE THAT UH, THAT WORK HAS PRESENTED IN ITEM 10.
IS THERE SECOND? I'LL THINK SECOND.
COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS DISCUSSION.
OPPOS IN FAVOR OF SIGNIFY THE SAME.
[11. Jack Sebastian; Discuss/Consider awarding bid number 23-01 annual contract for road repairs/asphalt overlay for Pet. 4 Road and Bridge. ]
CARRIES IT.JACK SEBASTIAN, DISCUSS, CONSIDER AWARDING BID NUMBER 2301 ANNUAL CONTRACT FOR ROAD REPAIRS ASPHALT OVERLAY FOR PRECINCT FOUR
[02:15:01]
ROAD AND BRIDGE.THIS IS ITEM THAT WAS ON THE LAST AGENDA AND WE TABLED I BRINGING IT BACK.
AND I THINK COMMISSIONERS MAKING THAT RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, AWARD A AAA PAVING IN THE AMOUNT OF $211,200.
IS THERE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL? UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION AS PART OF THAT MOTION.
I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT, UH, HAVING CHECKED THE REFERENCES FOR THE LOW BIDDER, I, I FIND THAT, UH, TYPICALLY THIS COMPANY HAS ONLY PAID SMALL SECTIONS OF ROAD FOR THEIR, ACCORDING TO THEIR REFERENCES, 50 FEET, A HUNDRED FEET, UH, ROAD AND REPAIR TYPE WORK.
UH, ALSO WAS ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT THIS LOW BIDDER HAD NOT EVEN EXAMINED THE ROAD.
THEY HADN'T EVEN BEEN OUT AND LOOKED AT THE ROAD WHEN THEY MADE THIS BID.
AND THIRD, THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A COPY OF THEIR OWN BID TO DISCUSS.
SO I'M SKEPTICAL ABOUT, UH, THE INITIATIVE HERE TO GO WITH THE LOW BIDDER, BUT, UH, HAVING BEEN INFORMED THAT, UH, ANY OTHER OPTION REQUIRES ADDITIONAL WORK BY THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT, I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THE, UM, AWARD OF THE CONTRACT TO THE LOW BIDDER.
OKAY, WE HAVE THAT MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER CASE.
IS THERE A SECOND?
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
UH, COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS? NO.
[12. Jack Sebastian; Discuss/Consider utilizing Local Government Code Section 262.024 Discretionary Exemptions (a) (1) (2) (3) for completion of plumbing repairs to Kaufman County Jail. ]
MOTION FAILS.ITEM 12, JACK SEBASTIAN, DISCUSS, CONSIDER UTILIZING LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 2 62 24 DISCRETIONARY EXEMPTIONS FOR A 1 23 FOR COMPLETION OF PLUMBING REPAIRS TO THE COUNTY JAIL.
GENTLEMEN, THIS IS A, UH, UH, PLUMBING PROJECT THAT WAS STARTED IN SEPTEMBER.
AND UH, THIS IS MORE OR LESS TO CLEAN THIS UP.
UH, THEY'VE ANNOUNCED SINCE SEPTEMBER, AND I THINK THE, UH, COST, CURRENTLY COST, I THINK THE FINAL PRICE IS 144,000 AND SOME CHANGE.
UH, THE REASON I'M BRINGING IS TO COURT.
UH, THAT CONTRACT HAD ACTUALLY EXPIRED.
WE, WE HAVE REBI THAT, AND WE'RE EVALUATING 'EM NOW, BUT MAKE NO SENSE TO STOP THE VENDOR THAT'S CURRENTLY DOING THAT.
UH, THAT PROJECT'S IN PROCESS AND, UH, RAN IT BY COUNSEL.
I HAVE A, A, UH, ORDER THAT SHE HAS PROVIDED AND, UH, UNDER THAT EXEMPTION, UH, IF WE'RE PROTECTING COUNTY PROPERTY AND SUCH, UH, THEN, THEN WE'RE ALLOWED TO, UH, AWARD THAT WITHOUT GOING THROUGH ANY OF THE PROCESS THERE.
AGAIN, THE PROCESS HAD STARTED, UH, THE COURT WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN IF WE HAD PRESENTED A INVOICE, BUT I, I WANNA CLEAN THIS UP AND JUST USE THIS STATUTE AS TO AS TO PAY THE INVOICE.
THIS IS OVER THE MAIN DRAINS DOWN IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT.
THAT'S THE SAME THINGS WE'VE BEEN DOING FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
I THINK WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THOSE.
THE SAME PEOPLE BEEN DOING IT.
I WAS NOT AWARE THAT THEY STARTED IT.
BEEN TWO GUYS, AT LEAST TWO GUYS OUT THERE EVERY DAY SINCE THEN.
THAT FI THEY FIND ONE PROBLEM.
THAT CREATES ANOTHER PROBLEM, THEN THERE'S ANOTHER PROBLEM.
YEAH, THEY THINK THEY'VE, THE WHOLE BILLINGS SETTLED.
BUT ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS TO CLEAN THAT UP.
UH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT.
THAT RIGHT CO COMMISSIONER PHYLLIS MOVED TO APPROVE THAT ITEM AS PRESENTED IN ITEM 12 AS JUROR SECOND.
DISCUSSION THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
THOSE OPPOSED? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES.
[13. Ken Cates; Discuss/Consider interlocal agreement and project agreement for the City of Rosser to patch the city section of CR 4087 and mow the city section of CR 4087 and CR 4088. ]
ITEM 13 KIN CASE DISCUSSED.CONSIDER IN LOCAL AGREEMENT AND PROJECT AGREEMENT FOR THE CITY OF RAW TO PATCH CITY, SECTION OF COUNTY ROAD 4 0 87 AND MO CITY SECTION OF 4 0 87 AND 4 88.
JUDGE, THIS IS JUST A RENEWAL OF OUR, OF OUR, UH, ANNUAL CONTRACT THAT WE DO AT THE CITY OF ROSS OR OUR INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT TO, TO, UH, HELP 'EM MAINTAIN, UH, UH, PORTION OF COUNTY ROAD 40 87 THAT'S WITHIN THEIR CITY LIMITS.
AND ALSO TO MOW PORTIONS OF 87 AND 88 WITHIN THEIR CITY LIMITS.
MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS WRITTEN.
KATE'S MOVED TO APPROVE THAT ITEM AS PRESENTED.
COMMISSIONER BARBER DISCUSSION.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
[14. Auditor; Discuss/Consider line-item and budget transfers/corrections. ]
NOW TO THE AUDITOR, DISCUSS, CONSIDER LINE ITEM AND BUDGET TRANSFER CORRECTIONS.DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LINE TRANSFERS AND AMENDMENTS? NO MA'AM.
CAN I ASK FOR YOUR APPROVAL IF THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS FOR THE AUDITORS OR MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED? I MAY GET MOTION.
WAIT THAT MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER PHILLIPS? IS THERE A SECOND? UH, SECOND.
THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
OPPOS? NO, THAT MOTION CARRIES.
[15. Auditor; Discuss/Consider claims for payment and/or Financial Information as provided by the County Auditor, ]
ITEM 15, DISCUSS.[02:20:01]
FOR PAYMENT AND OR FINANCIAL INFORMATION IS PROVIDED BY THE COUNTY AUDITOR.YOUR CLAIMS FOR PAYMENT ARE $5,418,519 AND 59 CENTS.
PAYROLL OF 1,000,600 $82,483 AND 38 CENTS.
ALTOGETHER TOTAL PAYOUT $7,101,002 AND 97 CENTS.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE BILLS? NO.
THESE IS HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS PRESENTED.
WE MOTION TO COMMISSION BARBARA.
SECOND, I'LL SECOND THANK COMMISSION.
DISCUSSION OVER FAVOR SIGNIFY TO AYE.
I'LL BE GLAD TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN THE MEETING.
COMMISSION MOVES TO ADJOURN IS JUROR.
SECOND, SECOND COMMISSION DISCUSSION.