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TODAY IS, UH, FRIDAY, OCTOBER THE 25TH, UH, 2016.IT'S, UH, THREE 30, AND, UH, WE'RE HAVING A SPECIAL MEETING AT THE
UH, WE'LL DISPENSE WITH OUR NORMAL OPENING CEREMONIES.
WE HAVE ONE ITEM, UH, ON THE AGENDA TO DISCUSS, AND THAT IS TO DISCUSS AND CONSIDER ENTERING INTO SERVICE PROOF WITH GOLD, MR. KAISER AND PFIZER, I GUESS, UH, LD REGARDING IRSS 10 99 ISSUES.
SO I'LL YOU LET, SHE'S DONE A LOT OF THIS WORK, HAS A LOT OF INFORMATION, SO I'M, I'M GONNA, SHE'S GONNA SPEAK ALRIGHT.
AND I'LL STAND UP BECAUSE I SPEAK BETTER WHEN I SEE HIM.
UM, WELL, THANK YOU GUYS FOR COMING ON FRIDAY.
I KNOW IT WAS KIND OF A QUICK TURNAROUND FROM EARLIER THIS WEEK.
UM, AS SOON AS WE RECEIVED OUR OFFICE, RECEIVED THE INFORMATION, UM, FROM YOU GUYS AND FROM KAREN'S OFFICE, WE, UM, TURNED AROUND, GOT A CONFERENCE CALL WITH
BECAUSE TO BE HONEST, THE DA'S OFFICE HASN'T BEEN INVOLVED SINCE THE, YOU KNOW, THE SPRING TIME WHEN WE MET AND WE TALKED TO THE FIRM, UM, BY PHONE, UH, I GUESS IT'S BEEN SINCE JANUARY.
SO IT WAS A QUICK UPDATE AND, UH, THE PARTNER, UM, CINDY GOLDEN AND THEN AS WELL AS
AND THEN ANGIE WATERS, WHO WORKED WITH KAREN DIRECTLY AS ANOTHER CPA CONSULTANT.
AND I TALKED TO BOTH OF THE GUYS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CASE AND THEY, UM, GAVE YOU SOME DETAILS OF WHERE WE'RE AT.
SO I'M GONNA KIND OF GO OVER THE BASICS OF THAT CALL.
RICK FLO IS GONNA BE AVAILABLE BY PHONE IF YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THAT I CAN'T ANSWER.
I SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME WITH 'EM THOUGH, SO I FEEL LIKE I CAN GET THAT ANSWERED.
COME ON IN, JC JUST GETTING STARTED.
SO WE'LL BRIEFLY GO THROUGH IT.
SO WHENEVER, UM, IN THE SPRINGTIME WE VOTED TO ENGAGE WELDMAN, KAISER AND KAISER, WE AT THAT TIME ASKED THEM TO ENTER INTO THE APPEAL PROCESS AND START WORKING WITH, UM, THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE TO COLLECT, UM, REPAIR AND COLLECT ON THE 10 99 ISSUE.
AND THEN AS WELL AS, UM, RECEIVING 46, 69 FORMS BACK FROM DIFFERENT COMPANIES WHO HAD PAID, UM, IN ORDER TO CORRECT SOME OF THE WITHHOLDING FEES, BACK WITHHOLDING FEES THAT THE COUNTY HAD PAID.
AND I, KAREN, DO YOU HAVE THE EXACT AMOUNT ON THAT ORIGINAL NUMBER? IT'S IN THE ONE 60 RANGE.
RIGHT? UM, AND I KNOW 1 65, 1 65.
AND SO, UH, I ASKED THEM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT ON THAT, AND THEY SAID THAT THERE'S PROBABLY ABOUT 14,000 THAT'S JUST NOT, WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RECOUP BECAUSE EITHER BUSINESSES HAVE CLOSED, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET THE FORMS BACK FROM 'EM, BUT OUT OF THE ENTIRE AMOUNT, THAT'S PRETTY GOOD PERCENT OF 'EM THAT WE WERE ABLE TO, TO FIND AND GET FORMS BACK FOR IT.
UNFORTUNATELY, UM, OUR CASE DURING THAT APPEAL PROCESS WAS CLOSED AND THEN THEY DENOTED THAT WE HAD ZERO LIABILITY, DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING FURTHER, BUT THEY DIDN'T ALSO REBATE AND SAY THAT WE WERE OWED MONEY, UM, AND FEES BACK.
OUR, UM, FIRM THAT WE ENGAGED FEELS LIKE THAT WAS DONE IMPROPERLY AND THAT THERE WAS AN ERROR WHEN THAT DECISION WAS COMPLETED, AND THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO FILE A TAX COURT PETITION AND RECORD ALL THOSE ERRORS IN THAT PETITION AND SUBMIT IT TO A JUDGE FOR THEIR DECISION ON THE MATTER.
AND IT'S KIND OF SLIGHTLY CONFUSING IN THE WAY THAT THEIR APPEALS PROCESS WORKS IN THE IRS.
IT'S NOT A JUDICIARY PROCESS UNTIL AFTER THEY COMPLETE THAT FIRST STEP, BUT THE FIRST STEP IS SUBJECT TO JUDICIAL REVIEW.
AND SO IF THEY CLOSE IT OUT, THEN THEY CAN, THEY GIVE YOU 30 DATES TO, UM, COME BACK IN AND REFUTE OR FILE A PETITION SAYING THAT THAT PROCESS WAS CLOSED INCORRECTLY.
AND THIS FIRM SAYS, WE FEEL LIKE, UM, THERE WAS PLENTY OF ERROR, WE CAN REPORT THAT AND FILE THE PETITION.
NOW THE STANDARD IS ABUSE OF DISCRETION AND KAREN WILL TELL YOU THAT AS AN ATTORNEY, THAT IS A VERY, VERY HIGH STANDARD TO MEET.
SO THE FACT THAT THIS FIRM IS TELLING US THAT THEY FEEL LIKE WE NEED THAT, UM, IS GOOD NEWS FOR THE COUNTY BECAUSE IT'LL, IT'LL BE REPRESENTATIVE IN OUR PETITION AND IT'LL ALLOW WHOEVER'S REVIEWING IT, WHATEVER JUDGE GETS IT TO QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, MOVE IT PAST AS QUICK AS THE IS MOVES.
NOW THE PROCESS THEY ESTIMATE WILL TAKE AROUND A YEAR'S TIME AND, UM, WE KIND OF WENT THROUGH THE EXACT PRICING OF THE, TO FILE THE PETITION AND THEN PUT
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IN ALL THOSE DIFFERENT ASSIGNMENTS OF ERROR IN THE FILING FEE, FILING E $60, UM, IT WOULD BE $3,000 FOR THE PETITION, UH, AND TO GET IT FILED AND TO DO THEIR, THEIR WORK TO DRAFT IT.NOW, AFTER IT'S FILED, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD ANSWER THAT PETITION, AND THEN OUR, UH, REPRESENTATION WOULD ASK FOR A VENUE CHANGE TO DALLAS, UM, WHERE WE'RE LOCATED.
SO THAT'S A, A FAIRLY SIMPLE PROCESS.
AND THEN, UM, AT THAT POINT, IF THE VENUE WAS IN DALLAS, THE FIRM, UM, RICK HAD REPRESENTED TO ME THAT HE KNOWS THE COUNCIL IN DALLAS, HE'S WORKED WITH THEM, UM, ON MANY OTHER OCCASIONS.
SO HE, HE FEELS COMFORTABLE IN THAT AREA.
I CHECKED OUT HIS, UM, WHERE HE'S ADMITTED TO PRACTICE, IT REPRESENTS TAX SCORE.
HE'S IN GOOD STANDING JUST TO CONFIRM EVERYTHING, AND HE'S BEEN AN ATTORNEY SINCE BEFORE I WAS BORN.
SO HE'S DEFINITELY BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK A FEW TIMES.
AS FAR AS TAX COURT GOES, UM, AFTER THAT POINT, THEY WOULD REQUEST FOR A DECISION TO REMAND.
UM, THE, THE CLOSEOUT, UH, LIABILITY, BASICALLY THE CLOSEOUT FORM SAYS WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THE LIABILITY ISSUE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP.
AND BY LIABILITY ALL I MEAN IS THAT WE'RE NOT SAYING WHETHER OR NOT, UM, KAUFMAN COUNTY SHOULD BE PAID BACK OR REBATE.
UM, THE AMOUNT AND THE FORMS THAT KAREN WAS ABLE TO COLLECT, WHICH THE FIRM ESTIMATES AT ABOUT 140 TO $150,000.
SO THAT'S THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S KIND OF UP IN THE AIR, UM, AT STAKE IN THE DECISION.
AND THEY WOULD, UM, HOPE THAT THAT JUDGE WOULD REMAND IT AND THEN DIRECT, UM, THE IRS TO REBATE THAT AMOUNT.
SO, AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE, UH, KIND OF TOTAL OUTLAY WOULD BE FOR US? FOR THE, UH, THEY ESTIMATE BETWEEN SEVEN TO $10,000.
AND I ASKED KAREN PREVIOUSLY, WHENEVER THEY ESTIMATE US HOW OFF THEY WERE, BECAUSE SOME FIRMS HAVE MORE OF A REPUTATION OF GOING OVER QUITE A BIT OR, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY NEVER GO UNDER.
BUT, UH, SHE SAID, I THINK THERE WERE OVER ABOUT A THOUSAND, RIGHT? THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY CHARGED THE 5,000 TO DO THEIR REPORT FOR THE COURT, AND THEN WE HAD TO WRITE AN ADDITIONAL FOR, UH, ANGIE WHEN SHE COME DOWN AND VIEWED THE SYSTEM AND HOW I HAD CLEANED IT UP AND HOW I HAD FIXED IT, WHERE THE CONSULTING ASPECT OF IT.
SO, SO THEY WERE PRETTY WELL ON TARGET.
SO I DON'T SEE THEM GOING TOO MUCH OVER THAT AMOUNT.
AND I, I FEEL A LITTLE BETTER SAYING THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY DO ACCOUNTING.
SO NOW THAT YOU'VE HEARD, YOU KNOW, AND YOU'VE THIS MINE AND YOU'VE BEEN HERE LONGER AS AN ATTORNEY, I'M NOT REBECCA AT THIS POINT.
DO YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT SAYING YES? WELL, I DID PERSONALLY.
NOW REBECCA AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT QUITE A BIT, AND I OVERHEARD THE PHONE CALL.
I MEAN, I'M, WE'VE, WE'VE DONE IT TOGETHER, BUT SHE HASN'T HAD A GOOD GRIP ON THE INFORMATION BASICALLY FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, THE IRS IS KIND OF THE, I CALL IT LIKE A NATION UNTO THEMSELVES BASICALLY.
BUT WHEN THE IRS WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS INITIALLY IT APPEARS THAT THERE WERE BASICALLY WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER SOME ERRORS MADE IN NOT GIVING US THAT REBATE OF THAT MONEY.
AND SO WHEN IT GOES UNDER JUDICIAL REVIEW AND THE, AND THE STANDARD OF REVIEW ON APPEAL IS EITHER DE NOVO OR IT'S AN ABUSE OF DISCRETION, DE NOVO IS WHERE, AND, AND THIS IS MORE IN THE LITIGATION STANDPOINT, BUT DE NOVO REVIEW IS WHERE THEY LOOK AT EVERYTHING AND NEW 'CAUSE THERE WERE NUMEROUS ERRORS MADE ON JUDICIAL DISCRETION IS USED WHEN THERE'S NOT A TRIAL.
IT'S MORE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS LIKE THIS.
OR IF IT WAS DISTRICT COURTS, IT WOULD BE A BENCH TRIAL WHERE THE ONLY APPEAL THAT YOU REALLY HAVE IS WHAT'S CALLED ABUSIVE DISCRETION.
WHERE BASED ON THE FACTS AND THE EVIDENCE AND THE INFORMATION THAT CAME INTO EVIDENCE THAT THE JUDGE OR THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER DOING THE REVIEW, HIS DISCRETION WAS ABUSIVE IN THAT HE SHOULD HAVE GRANTED GIVING THE MONEY BACK.
HE SHOULD HAVE GRANTED SOME OTHER THINGS IN THE PROCESS PROCESS.
AND SO WE THINK THAT WE MEET THAT, AND THEIR PROFESSIONAL OPINION IS THAT WE MEET, WE MEET THAT LEGAL BURDEN, THAT WE MEET THE ABUSE OF DISCRETION.
SO IN MY OPINION, TO THROW POTENTIALLY $10,000 AFTER COLLECTING 140,000 FOR MY MONEY, I'D BET THE 10,000, I WOULD BET THE 10,000 ONLY ONE 40.
AND THIS IS A REPUTABLE FIRM, THIS IS A REPUTABLE FIRM.
AND, AND REBECCA AND I IN THE DA'S OFFICE, WE ARE NOT TAX ATTORNEY EXPERTS.
AND THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER LEGAL MATTER, BUT, UM, THEY DON'T EVEN PROVIDE TRAINING FOR IT FOR US.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD DEFINITELY RELY ON THEIR OPINION.
AND I ALSO THINK THAT WHEN, UM, YOU
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HAVE A, A FIRM THAT'S A GOOD FIRM AND THEY HAVE A RAPPORT WITH THE COUNCIL FOR THE IRS AND THEY WORK TOGETHER ON DIFFERENT THINGS, I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHAT THOSE ATTORNEYS DO IN DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.I KNOW THAT WHEN I WORK WITH OPPOSING COUNSEL AND I KNOW THE DIFFERENT OPPOSING COUNSEL ARE, I KNOW KIND OF HOW THEY OPERATE.
YOU KNOW, WE ALL, ALL DO THAT IN BUSINESS SITUATIONS.
SO IT'S CERTAINLY A DECISION FOR THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT I WOULD HATE FOR THE COUNTY INVEST THE OPPORTUNITY ON NOVEMBER 2ND TO POTENTIALLY GET, GET THAT MONEY.
BUT IT'S DEFINITELY, UM, WE CAN TRY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU WANT.
LIKE YEAH, I'M PRETTY HAPPY WHAT YOU THINK, YOU THINK IT'S GOOD, GOOD BAD SENSE? I THINK IT'S, IT'S GOOD.
IT'S A GOOD DECISION TO MAKE SIMPLY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET ALL OF THAT BACK.
BUT I MEAN, THEY FIND THE COUNTY 16,600 AS A FILING PENALTY.
THERE WERE FOUR QUARTERS THAT THEY CHARGED US $1,252 A QUARTER BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE WERE ON AS CONTRACT LABOR, AND THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAYROLL.
RIGHT? ABOUT $5,000 THEN THE 28% BACKUP HOLDING THAT, Y'ALL KNOW HOW HARD I'VE WORKED ON GETTING THOSE BIG FIRMS TO GIVE US PROOF THAT THEY HAD FILED THAT ON THEIR INCOME TAX.
I FEEL SURE THAT WE'LL GET THAT PROBABLY 130 OF THAT BACK, YOU KNOW, AND IF THEY, IF THEY TAKE, THEY'RE SAYING WHAT, 140 SOMETHING? YEAH, 140, 150.
SO IF THEY GIVE US THAT 130 SOMETHING BACK A THOUSAND, THEN THEY SHOULD GIVE US SOME OF THAT FILING PENALTY BACK TOO.
I, I'M, IT TAKE AT LEAST PROBABLY A YEAR OR SO, NOTHING MOVES VERY FAST IN I, NO, BUT IT'S GOVERNMENT,
I GUESS MY QUESTION, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK TWO OR THREE TIMES AND I'VE HAD DEALINGS WITH IRS AND THEY LOVE TO PICK ON THE LITTLE BUSINESSMEN.
AND I BEEN THESE ISSUES, I, BECAUSE I FAILED TO GET MY 10 99, BUT I WORKED OUT IT, I KNOW RODNEY, YOU'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS OF PEOPLE'S FOR MANY YEARS, OR THANK YOU.
THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE SAYS THAT, THAT THE TREASURER SHALL DIRECT PROSECUTION FOR THE RECOVERY OF ANY DEBT OWED IN THE COUNTY IS PROVIDED BY LAW SHALL SUPERVISE THE COLLECTION OF THE DEATH.
UH, HERE'S MY ORIGINAL PHONE CALL, THE SERIES OF PHONE CALLS THAT I TALKED TO Y'ALL ABOUT WHEN THIS FIRST CAME UP IN JANUARY.
AND AT THAT TIME IT WAS SETTLED, IT WAS INACTIVE.
AND DAVID SKINNER, CHIEF COUNSEL IN WASHINGTON, DC FOR THE IRS TOLD ME, GET YOUR 46 60 NINES TOGETHER AND THIS MONEY IS REBATED.
AND THERE WAS, AND I TOLD Y'ALL THERE WAS NO NEED TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE, YOU KNOW, WE PAID THAT MONEY OCTOBER 16TH FROM 2015 AND, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD ALREADY HAVE MONEY AND WE WOULDN'T BE SITTING HERE TALKING TODAY ABOUT WAITING ANOTHER YEAR.
UM, YOU KNOW, A MAN WHO ISOLATES HIMSELF, PROVERBS 18 ONE AND TWO, A MAN WHO ISOLATES HIMSELF QUARRELS AGAINST ALL SOUND WISDOM A FOOL FINDS NO PLEASURE AND UNDERSTANDING, BUT QUARRELS AGAINST ALL SOUND WISDOM.
AND YOU KNOW, WE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M RELYING ON MY DIRECT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GENERAL COUNSEL AT THE IRS IN WASHINGTON, DC AND, AND I LAID OUT A QUICK PATH TO RECOVERY, USED MY CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY AS ELECTED TREASURER OF COUNTY TO WORK THE PROCESS FROM THE TOP DOWN AT THE IRSI WAS TALKING TO A CHIEF COUNCIL IN WASHINGTON, DC AND, YOU KNOW, THE COURT CHOSE TO GO DIFFERENT WHERE WE'RE WORKING TO PROCESS FROM THE BOTTOM UP, LIKE WE'RE A SMALL BUSINESSMAN.
AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH PROVERBS 1 30 31 SAYS, SINCE THEY WOULDN'T ACCEPT MY ADVICE AND SPUR MY REVIEW, THEY WILL EAT THE FRUIT OF THEIR WAYS AND BE FILLED WITH THE FRUIT OF THEIR SCHEMES.
THAT'S WHERE WE FOUND OURSELVES.
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OFFERED BY MYSELF, I GUESS THAT FRIDAY EVERYBODY, WELL, EVERYBODY WAS TRYING TO MAKE A DECISION HERE, AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT WE MADE A WRONG DECISION OR A RIGHT DECISION.AND I'M TRYING TO PROVIDE YOU ENCOURAGEMENT THAT WHAT THE RIGHT DECISION IS.
I'M NOT TRYING TO CONVICT YOU OF THE WRONG DECISION.
ALL I'M TRYING TO DO IS TAKE UP FOR WHAT THE RIGHT DECISION WOULD BE.
AND, YOU KNOW, I OFFERED MY ASSISTANCE TO, AND WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? THE RIGHT DECISION, THE RIGHT DECISION IS TO, UM, CONSIDER THAT WE HAD 30 DAYS TO FILE AN APPEAL.
AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, YOU FELLAS LEARNED ABOUT IT ON MONDAY, AND THE DECISION DAY IS SIX DAYS AWAY.
SO SOMEWHERE OR ANOTHER THREE WEEKS TIME ELAPSED.
SO THE DECISION, THE CORRECT DECISION TO MAKE IS LET IT STAY INACTIVE.
LET ME TAKE THIS INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE PREPARED, CONTACT DAVID SKINNER AND IF I HAVE TO GO SEE HIM AND GET A TIMELY RESOLUTION TO THIS, DAVID SKINNER SAYS HE HAS NEVER HEARD OF A CASE LIKE THIS.
HE'S NEVER, EVER SEEN A COMPANY PAY BACK UP WITHHOLDING, GOING THREE BACK YEARS BACK IN THE HISTORY.
NOW BACK UP WITHHOLDING IN A CURRENT YEAR, BACK UP WITHHOLDING IN THE FUTURE.
BUT WE, THE IRS IS SITTING THERE HOLDING MONEY FOR THE ACCOUNT OF ALL OF THESE FOR TAX RETURNS THAT THEY'VE ALREADY FILED.
BUT THEY DUNNO, YES, THEY DID KNOW.
AND DAVID SKINNER SAID, RELEASING THAT MONEY IS A STRAIGHTFORWARD FIX.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY FILED ALL OF THIS DONE.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE DISTRICT, THEY FOUND ALL THOSE, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY WASN'T INFORMED.
NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THEY'VE DONE.
THE PROCESS THAT I WOULD START WOULD BE THE, THE FORM 8 43 IS TO REQUEST AN ABATEMENT OR REBATE OF TAXES.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY FILED, APPARENTLY IT WASN'T AN 8 43 BECAUSE THEY'VE GONE THROUGH SOME ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS.
THE 8 43 IS WHAT DAVID SKINNER SAID TO FILE ALONG WITH THE 46 60 NINES TO REQUEST RETURN TO THESE MON.
AND WHEN I HAD THE 46 60 NINES AND I HAVE THE 8 43 IN MY HAND, WHICH I THINK KAREN AND I ACTUALLY FILLED ONE OUT BACK IN THE DAY, AND I'LL GET THAT SKINNER AND SEEK HIS COUNSEL GUIDANCE.
AND I BELIEVE THAT'S THE RIGHT DECISION.
WITHOUT GOING INTO GETTING INTO A LONG DISCUSSION WITH RON, I'M NOT FINISHED.
IF YOU EXCUSE, SORRY, WITHOUT GETTING INTO A LONG DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS AND, AND YOUR, YOUR OBSERVATION, UH, THE LETTER THAT, UH, KAREN RECEIVED WAS ON THURSDAY, OCTOBER THE 20TH.
I GUESS THAT YOU ACTUALLY, OR THAT'S WHEN IT WAS SENT.
I'M NOT SURE WHEN YOU, UH, RECEIVED IT FROM ANGIE WALTERS AND BUT THE DATE IN HERE TODAY SAYS, UH, THAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT A TAX COURT PETITION BE FILED PRIOR TO HOWEVER, THE SECOND YES, SIR.
WHICH IS NEXT WHAT WEDNESDAY? YES, SIR.
AND IS THAT KIND OF A DROP DEAD DATE? UH, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID.
THE, THE IRS LETTER THAT I GAVE YOU TO GIVE TO THE COMMISSIONERS IS DATED OCTOBER THE THIRD THAT I DIDN'T RECEIVE IT UNTIL THE WEEK I WAS IN FORT WORTH.
UH, SO THE RECOMMENDATION FROM, WE HEARD THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE TREASURER, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS THAT WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS FILING, YOUR HONOR, OR WITH THIS, UH, YOUR HONOR, WE'RE NOT TEXT TAX EXPERTS.
I UNDERSTAND, UNDERSTAND, I'M, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY, AND I'LL BE HONEST, I'M NOT REALLY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS THAT, UM, THE TREASURER IS TALKING ABOUT.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN REALLY COMPARE THE TWO.
I MEAN, I'M JUST BEING BRUISED BEING HANDED HERE.
UM, AS ATTORNEYS, WHENEVER THERE'S AN APPEAL DEADLINE, WE'RE ALWAYS AFRAID NOT TO MAKE THAT DEADLINE BECAUSE THE PROCESS THAT THIS FIRM WOULD LIKE TO TAKE, THAT, THAT THAT OPPORTUNITY WILL BE GONE ON NOVEMBER 6TH.
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UM, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. SKINNER WOULD BE AVAILABLE ON THE PHONE.MAYBE, WAS THERE A POSSIBLE CALL WITH HIM OR CAN YOU GIVE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT PROCESS? CHANCE? I JUST, I DON'T FIVE O'CLOCK IN DC I DOUBT HE'S THERE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN GIVE A RECOMMENDATION.
I CAN JUST PRESENT, BUT I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.
IF HE'S THERE, THEN THIS WOULD JUST BE EASIER TO FIND OUT IF HE UNDERSTAND.
WELL, IF YOU, YOU WANNA TALK TO HIM FIRST AND LET HIM KNOW THAT IT'S A PUBLIC MEETING SO THAT HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT TYPE OF BODY THAT WELL, I JUST CAN'T GET THAT RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE, I DUNNO, THE OTHER VISOR DOESN'T MEAN YOU COME OUT, YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.
IT HAS TO GO TO A COURT CHANGE MAKE, I KNOW THE, THE OTHER ISSUE WE HAD WITH THE BANK REJECTING THOSE PAYMENTS, WE FILED THAT FORM AND I GOT THE 5,200 BAG AND I SMELLED FIGHTING FOR THE 15, GOT THAT BAG AND IT'S RONNIE, SOMEBODY FRIDAY BE LUCKY FRIDAY MORNING.
IF YOU FILE A MOTION OR PETITION YEAH.
AND YOU CHANGE A COURSE, YOU CAN ALWAYS WITHDRAW IT, BUT YOU DON'T GET THE CHANCE TO SAY, WHOOPS, THEN WE DECIDED TO LIE.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S A GREAT POINT IN MIND OF TRYING TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT MR. OAKVILLE'S SOLUTION IS THAT WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE A GREAT SOLUTION.
I'M NOT, YEAH, I'M NOT TRYING TO, YEAH, I JUST DON'T KNOW.
I JUST DON'T DUNNO WHEN THAT HAPPENS.
AND WE MIGHT SAVE THE ADDITIONAL FEES, UH, IF NOT, NOT JUST REALLY LOCKED INTO ONE OR THE OTHER.
WE HAVE TO PROCEED IF WE WANT THE PETITION ON FILE BY THE SECOND.
THAT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT APPEARS THAT MR. HELLO? HELLO? YES, IT'S RONNIE OLDFIELD.
IS THIS DAVID SKINNER? HELLO, THIS IS RONNIE OLDFIELD.
TO WHOM DO I SPEAK NEXT SECOND? YEAH, I'VE GOT ONE, ONE LINE ON MY PHONE.
IS THIS DAVID CENTER? IS YOUR OFFICE AT BEDS OWN? OUR OFFICE IS SOMETHING THE BASEMENT NOT GIVE UP SOMETHING.
WE'RE NOT MISSING SOMETHING WE CAN CERTAIN PRECLUDE HIM, DOESN'T HIM INFORMATION.
SO YOU ALL, BECAUSE I DON'T, I DON'T, WE AND SO THERE'S SOMEBODY SAVE US A HUNDRED THOUSAND.
HE WORKS FOR THE COUNTY, WE GOTTA SAY.
AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT 3060 RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS NOT AVAILABLE TO, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY TO AT LEAST GET THE BALL.
JUDGE, I THOUGHT WE HAD THE SIGNAL ISSUE IN THE COURTHOUSE.
I SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO Y'ALL.
IT'S RONNIE OLDFIELD IN KAUFMAN COUNTY, TEXAS.
HEY RONNIE, HOW ARE YOU? DOING WONDERFULLY.
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I HAVE YOU ON SPEAKER PHONE, I APOLOGIZE.UM, WE ARE IN A SPECIAL MEETING OF THE KALIN COUNTY'S COMMISSIONER'S COURT.
AND, UM, YOU TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT YOU AND I TALKED IN JANUARY ABOUT THE COUNTY HAVING BEEN REQUIRED TO PAY, UH, BACKUP, WITHHOLDING ON SOME 2013, UH, VENDOR PAYMENTS THAT WERE MADE.
AND YOU HAD PROVIDED ME, UH, THAT IF WE OBTAINED THE FORMS 46 69 FROM THE VENDORS IN QUESTION STATING THAT YEAH, THEY HAD INCLUDED THAT INCOME ON THEIR TAX RETURN AND THEN ATTACHED THOSE TO A FORM 8 43 TO REQUEST REFUND OF THOSE BACKUP WITHHOLDINGS THAT WE MADE, THAT THAT WOULD BE A PRO AN PROCESS THAT SHOULD RESOLVE OUR ISSUE.
AND WE CAN AND YOU CAN ASSIST ME AS LONG AS, AS OUR CASE IS ASLEEP, AS LONG AS IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT IS CLOSED OUT.
AND THAT'S THE FACTS, THEN, UH, YOU CAN ASSIST ME KIND OF AS WE MANAGE OUR WAY THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
IS THERE A DEADLINE? UH, JUDGE, THIS, THIS IS BRUCE WOOD, OUR, UH, THE KAUFMAN COUNTY, UH, COUNTY JUDGE.
THANK YOU FOR BEING AT WORK LATE ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON.
WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT WHETHER WE'D BE ABLE TO TALK WITH ANYBODY IN WASHINGTON.
THE, THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, IS THERE A DEADLINE ON DOING THIS FOR WE OR OUR DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WHO ALSO SERVES AS OUR CIVIL ATTORNEY, HAS BEEN WORKING WITH A LAW FIRM IN DALLAS, AND I'LL ASK THEM TO CA FIRM CPA FIRM IN DALLAS.
AND THEY'VE INDICATED TO US, AND, UH, THAT THERE IS A DEADLINE OF NOVEMBER THE SECOND IN ORDER TO, UH, ASK FOR, TO PERFORM, UH, AN APPEAL ON THIS, WHICH IS NEXT WEDNESDAY.
AND SO IS, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO OVERRULE OR JUST CAN YOU GIMME SOME DIRECTION ON THAT OR GIVE US SOME DIRECTION? AND LET ME TELL YOU WHO'S IN THE ROOM WITH US.
I HAVE MYSELF, THIS COUNTY JUDGE AND TWO OF OUR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND THEN OUR COUNTY AUDITOR.
UH, AND THEN THE THREE PEOPLE FROM OUR DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WHO'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS ALONG WITH MR. OLDFIELD, OUR COUNTY TREASURER.
SO, UH, THAT KIND OF GIVES YOU ABOUT WHO WE ARE AT LEAST.
OKAY, SO THAT'S NOT A LOADED QUESTION, IT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, JUST A QUESTION FOR YOU.
GENERALLY, UH, THE, THE DEADLINE FOR BY, BY PLAN, UH, IS IS CONTROLLED BY A LOOK BACK PERIOD THAT DETERMINES WHAT MONIES CAN BE, CAN BE REFUNDED.
AND AS A GENERAL RULE, A LOOK BACK PERIOD IS THREE YEARS.
SO YOU NEED TO FILE THE, THE REFUND CLAIM WITHIN THREE YEARS OF WHEN YOU MADE THE PAYMENT.
UH, OTHERWISE, UH, UNDER THE CODE IT'S UNTIMELY REQUEST FOR REFUND.
AND THE IS IS NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE, MAKE THE LEAVE ON PAYMENT ITSELF.
UM, UNLESS THERE'S SOME OTHER DOCTRINE THAT ALLOWS US TO GO BEYOND THAT.
UM, THE, THE, UH, BACK OF THE BULK PAYMENTS THAT WERE MADE, DO YOU KNOW WHEN THEY WERE MADE? WE MADE THOSE OCTOBER 16TH, 2015, DAVID.
UM, IN THAT CASE, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THREE YEARS IT SOUNDS LIKE, TO BE SOMEBODY THAT SOMEBODY'S LOOKING AT A, UH, A LITTLE OVER ONE YEAR DEADLINE FOR, UH, FOR REQUESTED REFUNDS.
AND I'M NOT SURE WHY, WHY THAT WOULD BE MORE ACCELERATED.
DO YOU KNOW YOU TALKED TO NOVEMBER 3RD MARCH? WELL, DAVID, UH, DESPITE, UH, YOUR GREAT EFFORTS TO EDUCATE ME AND, AND MY, UH, HUMBLE EFFORTS TO, UH, CONVEY THAT TO THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR, UH, THEY RETAINED THE SERVICES OF A CPA FIRM IN DALLAS WHO FILED, WE DON'T, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IN HERE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THEY FILED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T STAY IN TOUCH WITH OUR COUNTY ATTORNEYS.
UH, BUT THEY FILED SOMETHING THAT GOT, UH, THE, THE FINDING WAS, HEY, YOU DON'T OWE ANY MONEY.
YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOU'RE FREE CLEAR NOW IF MONEY, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO APPEAL THAT YOU HAD, YOU KNOW, THAT LETTER WAS WRITTEN OCTOBER 3RD, SO THEY WERE GIVEN NOVEMBER 2ND TO MAKE THAT APPEAL.
AND ONCE AGAIN, I'M HERE APPEARING WITH THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY OF THAT.
THAT WE JUST NEED TO TAKE THESE 46 60 TWOS THAT WE HAVE OBTAINED, ATTACH THEM TO A PROPERLY COMPLETED FORM 8 43,
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AND SUBMIT THAT TO THE IRS AND SIT BACK AND WAIT ABOUT 90 DAYS.UH, THAT, THAT CERTAINLY SOUNDS LIKE THE RIGHT PROCESS FOR ME.
NOW, THE, UH, THE 30 DAY APPEAL WINDOW, UM, FROM THE REJECTION OF WHAT THE, THE ACCOUNTANTS DID, UM, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S, WE OFTEN HAVE A 30 DAY APPEAL PERIOD FROM A REJECTION.
IT CAN'T HURT TO SEND IN SOMETHING TO KEEP THAT PERIOD ALIVE.
UM, AND I, I WOULD BE REMISS TO SUGGEST THAT YOU REPORT IT.
UM, SO IT IS WORTH JUST SENDING A LETTER AND SAYING, WE WOULD LIKE TO RECONSIDER THIS AND WE WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT THIS MORE CLOSELY.
AND BY THE WAY, THIS IS WHAT WE THINK IS THE APPROPRIATE MECHANISM FOR US TO GO ABOUT GETTING THIS DONE.
UH, BUT WE WANT TO PRESERVE, UH, OUR ABILITY TO HAVE THE I APPEALS OFFICE OR WHOEVER, WHOEVER BE LOOKING, HAVE THAT, UH, DO SO.
AND DAVID, WE WOULDN'T NEED TO MAKE THAT FULL APPEAL FILING AT THAT TIME.
ALL WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE A ONE PARAGRAPH FILING THAT SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO RESERVE OUR RIGHT TO APPEAL.
WE BELIEVE WE'VE GOT GOOD CAUSE AND WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
THEN YOU'LL GET A LETTER FROM SOMEBODY SAYING, OKAY, WELL WE NEED YOU TO PROTECT THIS BY PROVIDING THIS INFORMATION SO WE CAN CONSIDER IT PROPERLY.
BUT AT LEAST YOU'LL HAVE, UH, IT'LL BE A PROTECTIVE FILE WOULD BE RIGHT.
I'D BE REMI DIDN'T ENCOURAGE AND THAT WOULDN'T INTERFERE WITH OUR FILING THE 8 43 AND THE 46 60 NINES SEEKING OUR, UH, ABATEMENT AND REBOUND.
AND, AND MR. SKINNER, MY NAME IS KAREN BADLEY.
I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU TAKING OUR CALL LATE ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON, AND WE DEEPLY APPRECIATE THE ADVICE.
I I WANTED TO ASK ONE QUESTION.
UM, IF WE PROCEEDED WITH THE APPEAL AND, AND PERFECTED IT, COULD WE STILL HAVE PARALLEL ACTIONS GOING ON IN WHICH WE HAD THE APPEAL PROCEEDING AND WE HAD THE 8 43, UM, REQUEST ON FILE, AND IF THE 8 43 RESOLVED OUR ISSUE, WE COULD JUST WITHDRAW THE APPEAL? IS THAT POSSIBLE TO HAVE BOTH OF THOSE PROCEEDINGS PARALLEL? DEFINITELY.
ALTHOUGH WHAT I, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT YOU MAKE SURE THAT, UM, EVERYBODY'S AWARE THAT ALL OF THEM ARE HAPPENING, RIGHT? SO IF, IF, SO, IF POSSIBLE THAT YOU BE COORDINATED WITH ONE PERSON OR CONSOLIDATED WITH ONE PERSON AND, AND SO YOU DON'T END UP TAKING OFF SOME AIRCRAFT SOME PLACE AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO ATTACK THIS IN VARIOUS
SO I, I WOULD BE UPFRONT AND TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT, UM, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEBODY DOESN'T GET, UH, MY OKAY, SO WHOEVER WE'RE WORKING WITH, WITH ON THE IRS WITH EACH SEPARATE TRACK, MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE DOCUMENTATION AND INFORMATION REGARDING THE OTHER ACTIONS SO THAT THEY KNOW WE'RE, WE'RE JUST WORKING ON OUR BEST ATTEMPT TO RESOLVE THE SITUATION.
WELL, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND I DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS.
I DON'T HAVE ANY, DAVID, YOU'VE BEEN VERY GRACIOUS ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON.
I'LL TOUCH BASE WITH YOU NEXT WEEK.
I HOPE EVERYTHING'S WELL DOWN TO TEXAS.
UH, HEY, I WANT TO MAKE YOU JEALOUS.
IT'S LIKE 86 DEGREES OUTSIDE AND WE'RE ALL INSIDE
SHOULD, GOSH, WE GOT IN TOUCH WITH THE IRS AT FIVE O'CLOCK ON FRIDAY.
I WOULD'VE NEVER FIGURED, FIGURED PULL THAT OFF.
I WOULD TEA THAT, PULL THAT OFF.
AND ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE TO GOD, YOU KNOW, NOW ALL I'VE BEEN DONE IS JUST BE IN PRAYER, BE IN WORD I AND I I APPRECIATE YOU.
I KNOW, AND I THINK, I THINK THAT THAT'S GOOD.
I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING IS YOU GOTTA DO BOTH BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING.
BUT HE ALSO TOLD US AGAIN, OUR COST ON TUESDAY IS $300 TO WRITE A SIMPLE ONE PARAGRAPH LETTER THAT SAYS, HEY, WE'VE GOT GOOD REASONS TO APPEAL.
WE'RE FILING THIS TO HOLD THAT.
AND, AND I'VE DONE THAT WITH IRS, I'VE DONE IT WITH TEXAS WORKFORCE COMMISSION.
I'VE DONE IT WITH ALL MATTERS OF THESE APPEALS THAT THEY DON'T EXPECT A FULL APPEAL TO BE FILED WITH THE THIRD.
THEY JUST NEED A SIMPLE NOTIFICATION, A PLACEHOLDER, AND THAT THAT CUTS Y'ALL'S UPFRONT COST DECISION WAY BACK.
AND THEN WE SEND IN THE 46 62 WITH THE 8 43 ON MONDAY, AND I'LL, I'LL GET BACK WITH
[00:35:01]
DAVID ON MONDAY.I'LL MAKE SURE HE HAS THAT PACKET, SAME PACKET.
AND THEN WE'LL GET THIS THING SO THAT WE NEVER HAVE TO INCUR THAT, THAT ADDITIONAL TRIPLE THOUSAND CALL.
I, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING AND IT'S, AND IT'S CERTAINLY UP TO THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT AS A LAWYER, I'M JUST GOING TO PUT IT OUT THERE FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, I'M ALWAYS AFRAID TO JUST DO THE ONE PARAGRAPH LETTER THAT SAYS, I, I HEARD WHAT HE SAID AND I'M NOT TRYING TO REFUTE OR TELL THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
BUT AS THE, AS AN ASSISTANT DA, I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T SAY, I DO THINK WE SHOULD PROCEED ON BOTH TRACKS WITH AN ADEQUATE PETITION THAT PERFECTS OUR APPEAL.
BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY LOOKS AT IT AND SAYS, HEY, I DON'T THINK THIS LETTER IS GOOD ENOUGH TO STAY THIS AND REQUEST FOR PERFECTION, THAT LETTER CAN BE JUDGED ON WHETHER IT, IT NEEDS TO BE PERFECTED AND STAYS IN PROCESS.
OR IT CAN BE LOOKED AT AS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, THIS DOESN'T, THIS DOESN'T AFFECT THE APPEAL.
THIS DOESN'T MEAN ANY KIND OF, OF, UM, OF LEGAL DOCUMENTATION TO STAND BILL.
THAT'S JUST MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION.
I'M NOT, BUT THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT CAN CERTAINLY PROCEED.
HOWEVER YOU ALL WOULD LIKE TO.
IF YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, I JUST JUMPED OUT AND GOT RICK'S NUMBER AND HE'S AVAILABLE.
SO IF YOU HAD ANY QUESTIONS TAX SPECIFIC THAT MAYBE WE, YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE WE WERE ABLE TO ANSWER IF THEY ARE THERE AND AVAILABLE AND THAT'S THE ATTORNEY.
KAREN, DID YOU SAY? I WAS JUST FIXING TO SAY THAT ON, ON THIS.
YOU KNOW, IT SAYS, UH, THE COURTS CANNOT CONSIDER YOUR CASE IF YOU FALL LATE.
IF YOU FILE AN APPEAL IN AN INCORRECT COURT, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO REFALL IN THE UNITED STATES TAX COURT IF THE PUR FOR FILING A PETITION HAS EXPIRED.
SO IT'S JUST, IT MEANS WE GOT, WE MIGHT EITHER, EITHER WAY IS FINE WITH ME.
I NEED EMAIL MR. OFIELD ALL THE UH, 46 60 NINES.
'CAUSE I HAVE 'EM SCANNED IN IN SEVERAL FILES BECAUSE I HAD TO SEND THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE SO THAT WAY THEY DIDN'T TURN THOSE IN THERE.
SAM, THIS CPA, WE DUNNO, HE CAN YOU CALL THOUGH, I GAVE HIM ALL, I JUST WANNA KNOW, I GAVE HIM ALL FALSE BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
UH, I WON'T TRUST THAT GUY IN WASHINGTON.
YOU WANT CALL? DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS FOR HIM? WELL, AIN'T THE ONLY QUESTION WOULD BE I THINK WOULD BE IF HE IN FACT DID 76 69 OR WHATEVER, HE'S SURE, SURE, SURE.
WHATEVER ADVOCATE ADVOCATING FOR MYSELF.
WHAT I, ALL I'M SAYING IS IF, AND THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING, RONNIE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RONNIE.
IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT THEY'VE DONE AND WHERE THE PROCESS IS, WHAT THEY'VE DONE.
WE DON'T KNOW WITH THE FELLOW THAT WE'RE Y CAN DO, DOESN'T KNOW WHAT OUR PROCESS IS, WHAT WE'VE DONE AND WHAT SOME AGENCY HERE, WHAT PART OF IRS HAS SAID TO US AND WHO'S HOLDING US AND WHETHER OR NOT HE CAN REALLY DO IT, SAYING THEY HAVE AN IRS COURT SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T DO SOMETHING.
HE'S A, UH, WHAT IS HE, IS HE THE CHIEF COUNSEL? THE ONE OF THE CHIEF.
HEY GREG, THE COURT IS, YOU ARE ON SPEAKERPHONE NOW, UM, JUST FOR EVERYONE, THIS IS RICK WARREN.
HE IS THE ATTORNEY, UH, WHO'S A PART OF GOLDEN PIE ADVISOR.
AND WHAT KIND OF SPECIFIC QUESTIONS DO YOU GUYS HAVE FOR RICK? OKAY, I GUESS, UH, RICK, MY NAME'S BRUCE WOOD, I'M COUNTY JUDGE AND UH, WE HAVE, UH, TWO OF OUR COMMISSIONERS IN HERE.
WE'RE HAVING A SPECIAL MEETING OF OUR COURT THIS AFTERNOON TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE.
I KNOW THAT YOU'VE BEEN VISITING WITH REBECCA AND KAREN ON, UH, THE, UH, OUR COUNTY TREASURER IN HERE AND HE HAS A, UH, PERSONAL FRIENDSHIP WITH MR. SKINNER, UH, IN WASHINGTON.
AND WE'VE HAD HIM ON THE SPEAKER PHONE.
I DON'T WHETHER YOU KNOW WHO MR. SKINNER IS.
DAVID SKINNER HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE TREASURER BACK IN THE SPRING AND YES, HE MENTIONED THAT, UH, HE HAD THIS RELATIONSHIP.
IT IS NOT A FRIENDSHIP JUDGE, IT'S JUST I'VE MET HIM THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND HE'S BEEN GRACIOUS.
SO THE QUESTION IS, DO WE HAVE THREE YEARS TO, UH, APPEAL THIS OR DO WE NEED TO,
[00:40:01]
UH, TAKE ACTION ON, UH, THIS BEFORE NOVEMBER THE SECOND? MR. SKINNER INDICATED TO US THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE UP TO THREE YEARS TO, UH, FILE THIS, UH, UH, APPEAL.THE, WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS A FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT CASE, AND THE WAY WE'RE TREATING THAT RIGHT NOW IS KIND OF LIKE THE FALL ACQUISITION IN THE EVENT THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO GET SATISFACTION THROUGH THE NORMAL CHANNELS OF, UH, THE TAX COURT AND THE IRS ADMINISTRATIVE ABUSE PROCESS.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT YOU HAD SAID, I BELIEVE.
WAS IT NOT MR. SKINNER, UH, AND I INDICATING THAT WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE BENEFIT OF INITIALLY GOING THROUGH THAT ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS VERSUS GOING DIRECTLY THROUGH THE DISTRICT COURT PROCESS? THE, UH, THE SUCCESS WE HAVE, UH, IN TAX COURT MATTERS.
THIS IS BASE LEVEL AND COLLECTION CASE THAT, UH, WENT WRONG AND WE THINK THAT THE CORRECT REMEDY WAS WHAT WE PRESENTED TO APPEALS PREVIOUSLY.
AND AT THIS POINT, UH, THEY HAVE ISSUED WHAT'S CALLED DETERMINATION, WHICH WE DON'T AGREE WITH.
WE DON'T THINK THAT THEY'VE DONE THEIR JOB.
AND SO WHY WE WANT TAX COURT BE INVOLVED BECAUSE TAX COURT THEN CAN IS TO DO THEIR JOB.
MR. SKINNER SAYS IT'S A SIMPLE PROCESS AND ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS SEND IN THE 4 69, UH, 8 43.
YEAH, RICK, AGAIN, GOING BACK TO OUR CONVERSATION, YOU SAID IT'S MARCH AND I RESPECT YOUR MEMORY MORE THAN MINE, BUT YOU KNOW, THIS, THE, THE PROCESS THAT DAVID SKINNER AND I AGREED ON WAS THAT THE FORM 8 43
AND DAVID SKINNER IS STILL ALL IN WITH THAT SOLUTION.
AND WHAT WE WERE THINKING TO DOING WAS SENDING THAT IN AS A PARALLEL, AS AN ALTERNATIVE, KINDA LIKE A BARREL APPROACH, SO TO SPEAK.
WELL, AND, AND AGAIN, BUT SEE THAT, AND, AND THAT'S FINE.
BUT YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHAT I TRIED TO ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO DO BACK IN THE SPRING.
I DIDN'T, I I SOMEBODY DOING SOMETHING PARALLEL, Y'ALL KNEW AND Y'ALL'S THING GREAT.
BUT I'D EMPHASIZED THROUGH MY CONVERSATION WITH DAVID SKINNER THAT SEND THE, AND I THINK IT TOOK US A LOT OF TIME TO GET THE 46 60 NINES RIGHT.
SO IT MAY HAVE BEEN TWO MONTHS AGO OR THREE MONTHS AGO BEFORE WE COULD HAVE FILED THE 8 43, BUT YEAH.
YOU KNOW, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HANDLE THAT PROCESS HERE INTERNALLY.
WELL I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DOING.
WELL, I KNOW DAY ONE, THE COURT, THE COURT TOOK CONTROL OF THIS AND ASSIGNED IT TO THIS FIRM TO HANDLE NO, BUT I'M, I'M SAYING I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THIS FIRM WAS ABOUT.
THIS IS KAREN BADLEY FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
RICK, WHEN WE WERE TALKING WITH, UM, MR. SKINNER, HE STATED THAT, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE DEADLINE ON NOVEMBER THE SECOND, AND HE STATED THAT WE COULD JUST SEND IN A LETTER, UM, STATING THAT WE WANTED TO PRESERVE OUR APPEAL AND, AND BASICALLY GIVING NOTICE THAT WE WERE APPEALING.
BUT, AND IF WE SEND IN THAT LETTER THAT THAT WOULD PRESERVE OUR APPEAL TIMEFRAME AND THEN WE WOULD SUBSEQUENTLY GET A LETTER FROM THE IRS INSTRUCTING US TO PERFECT THAT APPEAL.
IS, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BIAS TIME WITHOUT DOING THE FULL FLEDGED APPEAL AND SEEING WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE 8.3? WE JUST WE'RE, AS A LAWYER, OF COURSE, I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT A COURT DEADLINE KEEPS MOST ATTORNEYS UP AT NIGHT MAKING SURE THAT WE DIDN'T BLOW A DEADLINE ON APPEAL.
I'M I'M APPROACHING THAT QUESTION.
CAN YOU HELP US WITH SOME INFORMATION ON THAT? RIGHT.
WHAT WE HAVE HERE, UM, IS WHAT'S CALLED AN IRS NOTICE DETERMINATION.
AND BASICALLY IT IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THIS MATTER INTO TAX COURT WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE.
AND IF THAT 30 DAY PERIOD IS NOT MET, THEN THE TAX COURT WILL NOT TAKE JURISDICTION OVER THIS MATTER.
SO YEAH, IT, IT'S BASICALLY GO WITH THE 8 43 AND THEN THE DECISION IS WHETHER YOU WANNA HAVE THIS AS A PARALLEL
[00:45:01]
OR A BACKUP IN THE EVENT THAT, UM, IT'S UNSUCCESSFUL.AND IF IT IS UNSUCCESSFUL AND THE 8 43 IS UNSUCCESSFUL, THEN THERE IS STILL THE RIGHT TO TAKE THIS MATTER INTO, UH, THE FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT.
SO, UH, BASICALLY THE 8 43, CAN THEY, CAN THEY DENY IT? AND THEN THAT WAS MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION FOR RICK.
RICK, IT'S RONNIE OLDFIELD AGAIN.
THE, IF THEY, TO ME IN MY VIEW, UH, ONE WE GOT RICK, UH, DAVID SKINNER THAT SAYS WE DON'T HAVE TO FILE THE FULL APPEAL AND IN INCUR ALL OF THAT EXPENSE BY NOVEMBER 3RD.
AND COMMISSIONER THE, THE IRS CAN REJECT AN 8 43 THAT WOULD BE APPEALABLE ALSO.
SEE, SO HERE I WOULD SAY THAT THE CHANCE OF REJECTING AN 8 43 ARE PROBABLY SMALL.
WE FULLY EXPECT TO HAVE, UH, IN I APPEALS, BUT OUR POSITION IS THAT THEY DID NOT DO THEIR JOB.
BUT IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T PERFECT THIS APPEAL PENDING HEARING ON THE 8 43, IF THE 8 43 IS REJECTED BY SOME SMALL CHANCE WE COULD APPEAL THAT.
SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE FORESTALLED UH, THIS EXPENDITURE OF THREE OR FOUR $5,000 TO AFFECT THIS APPEAL ON THIS ONE.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THOSE 4, 6 60 NINES I SENT? DID THAT EVER GET SENT TO I RX? YES, THAT, UH, WHAT WE DID AS PART OF THE APPEAL WAS FOR THE COLLECTION DUE PROCESS WAS WE, UH, SENT AN OFFER AND COMPROMISE DUST TO LIABILITY REGARDING THE WITHHOLDING AND ALL 46 60 NINES WERE PART OF THAT FILING.
AS FAR AS WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO TELL, THEY DID NOT TAKE ANY ACTION ON WHAT WAS SUBMITTED.
IS THAT BECAUSE THE EIGHT 40 THREES NOT FILED? IS THAT, I MEAN, DOES THAT HAVE SOMETHING IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU DO ALL THOSE, BECAUSE YOU DO THE 8 43 AFTER YOU DO THOSE, IS THAT RIGHT? NO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE EXPLANATION WE GOT HERE WAS VERY BRIEF.
AND IT SAYS THE LIABILITIES HAVE BEEN SATISFIED.
WELL, WHEN YOU SUBMIT THEM THE DOUBT TO LIABILITY INQUIRY, WHETHER OR NOT THE LIABILITY IS SATISFIED IS IRRELEVANT.
THAT'S REALLY WHERE OUR CONCERN, THEIR RESPONSE WAS NONRESPONSIVE TO THEIR QUESTION.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING RIGHT THERE.
BUT YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE HERE TODAY AND WE'RE TRYING TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF COUNTY MONEY, YOU KNOW, WE, THE COURT COULD CHOOSE TO FILE A PLACEHOLDER REPEAL AND MINIMAL COST.
WE GET THE EIGHT 43 CENTS THE FIRST OF THE WEEK AND THEN WAIT FOR THE IRS TO SEND BACK A LETTER.
HEY, YOU NEED TO PERFECT YOUR APPEAL.
THEN THE COURT CAN MAKE ANOTHER DECISION WHETHER TO SPEND THAT MONEY KNOWING THAT WE'VE GOT A BACKSTOP.
OUR BACKSTOP IS TO WAIT TILL THE 8 43 RULE RULES BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS APPEAL IT.
AND, AND RICK WHAT IT IS, A SEPARATE APPEAL, SEPARATE EVENT.
AND RICK, LET ME FOLLOW UP JUST ONE MORE TIME.
I, I MIGHT HAVE MISSED THE RESPONSE TO, TO PART OF MY QUESTION ON THE LETTER.
WILL WILL A BRIEF LETTER FROM YOU ALL WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT OR FROM MR. OLDFIELD? NOT FROM ME.
WOULD THAT SUFFICE TO, TO PRESERVE OUR APPEAL UNTIL THE IRS REQUESTED THAT WE PERFECTED THERE IS IF, IF IT DOWN THIS, IF YOU WANNA HAVE ACCESS TO THE TAX COURT, YOU NEED TO FILE A TAX PETITION BEFORE THE 2ND OF NOVEMBER.
THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I'M PRESENTING TO YOU TODAY.
I DON'T, DID ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO, I DON'T.
THANK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
YEAH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING THANK YOU.
LEMME KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE.
SO IT APPEARS TO ME THIS IS KIND OF A BACKUP INSURANCE SITUATION.
UH, WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THEY WERE GONNA DO THE SAME THING THEY WERE GONNA SEND IN THE 8 43 2.
I MEAN, AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DIDN'T, WHY THEY DIDN'T, IF THEY'D HAVE DONE IT IN MAR WELL I, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTOOD.
[00:50:01]
I KNOW YOU, YOU WORKED SO HARD ON THOSE 46 60 TWOS, WASN'T IT? IT WAS JUNE OR JULY BEFORE WE HAD ALL THAT TOGETHER, WASN'T IT? I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT MY EMAIL BECAUSE WHEN I SCANNED THEM IN, I SENT THE DA COPIES OF IT.'CAUSE I WANTED PROOF I'D DONE MY JOB.
'CAUSE I ACCUSED NOT DOING IT.
NO, I JUST, I JUST THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS ALL ABOUT.
'CAUSE I THOUGHT DID I DO ALL THAT WORK? AND IT DIDN'T GET SENT IN, BUT SEE, TO PROVE WE'D DONE IT BECAUSE I'M LISTEN TO HIM AND I'M LISTENING TO THEM AND I'M, I'M HEARING BOTH THINGS COMING FROM 'EM AND THEY'RE BOTH SAYING THE SAME THING AND WE'RE JUST CHOOSING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN OUTSIDE LAW FIRM.
THEY'VE GOT PLENTY OF YOU DON'T WANNA TO MAKE NOTHING AGAINST.
I MEAN, SOMETIMES YOU JUST, YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND GET ASSISTANCE.
YOU DON'T, YOU, BUT I'VE BEEN YOURSELF, I'VE, YOU'VE BEEN SPEAKING TRUTH AND LIE ALL ALONG AND, AND, AND IF WE'D HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION BACK IN MARCH, YOU COULD HAVE BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE COURT.
I AIN'T BROUGHT, I'M, I'M TRYING, I'M JUST TRYING TO LET Y'ALL WELL, I MEAN, YOU KEEP SAYING THAT YOU COULD HAVE BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE COURT INFORMATION.
WELL, I, I DID I IN MY ORIGINAL PRESENTATION.
BUT THAT'S, I'M SAYING HERE TODAY, IN MY OPINION, IT'S, IT'S BACKUP INSURANCE.
WELL, I I SAY WE STILL HAVE TO FILE OUR BILL WITH THE, LET THEM, I, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND IT COULD BE $3,000 WASTE OF MONEY, BUT, BUT IT IS 3000 WASTE MONEY.
YEAH, BUT IS IT, YOU ALSO THINK THAT IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA.
DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT A MONTH AGO TO HAVE IT IN
I MEAN, THAT THAT'S UNFOR, YOU KNOW, Y'ALL GET TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
ME, ME PERSONALLY, YOU WOULDN'T DO IT.
BECAUSE, BECAUSE I HAVE MY RIGHT TO APPEAL THE 8 43 TH THIS FILING THAT THEY MADE.
BUT THEY TH LEMME ASK YOU, THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WHEN YOU APPEAL, WAIT A MINUTE.
WHEN YOU APPEAL AN 8 43, WHAT ARE YOU APPEALING IT TO? ARE YOU APPEALING IT TO A COURT OR ARE YOU JUST APPEALING IT TO AN OFFICER? ARE YOU GOING GO DISTRICT COURT LETTER.
THE LETTER WOULD LOOK VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU GOT THIS TIME.
IS THE LETTER TO THIS COURT OR WHEREVER WE CALLED IT THAT THEY WERE ON FILE? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS CAN DO? NO.
WE STUFF BECAUSE WE'RE NOT QUALIFYING THAT AND I'M NOT BEING A JERK ABOUT THAT.
NO, I I JUST ASKING COMMENT ABOUT IT.
THERE WAS MORE TO IT THAN JUST A SIMPLE, I MEAN, WHAT HE'S SAYING.
NOW, UM, I APPRECIATE LIKE ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE GOTTEN TODAY AND I THINK IT'S BEEN REALLY EYEOPENING TO GET ALL THE INFORMATION, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION TO MAKE THE DECISION.
UM, OUR OFFICE IS NOT ABLE TO DO THE TEXTBOOK.
I, WELL, HERE'S THE, HERE'S THE THING THAT I'M JUST GOING TO TELL YOU FRANKLY AND YOU TOO.
IT, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT BELIEVE RONNIE A HUNDRED PERCENT BELIEVE THEM OR ANYBODY ELSE.
I SAY IS IT WORTH 140,000 OR 150 OR 160,000? IS IT WORTH $3,000 TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN INSURANCE POLICY OR IS IT OKAY LET'S JUST A HUNDRED PERCENT ROLL DOWN ONE DIRECTION AND THAT'S IT.
OVER $3,000 AND TAKE THE CHANCE OF 150 IF WE DON'T HAVE TO LET 'EM DO ANYTHING ELSE.
ALL WE'RE DOING IS FILING THAT ONE THING.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THAT WE'RE FINISHED WITH THE PROCESS NEED TO SAY BEFORE WE HAVE A, A CALL FOR A QUESTION ON THIS? WE, WE CAN LIMIT THE SCOPE OF THE ENGAGEMENT TO THAT SPECIFIC $3,060.
SO THAT WANT IT EXCEEDED IF THAT'S YOUR DECISION.
BUT, BUT IMMEDIATE BUT IMMEDIATELY THERE'S GOING TO BE FOLLOW ALONG WITH THAT.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE, ONCE THAT'S FILED, IF, IF THE IRS IN, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD GET BACK IN 60 DAYS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WANT SOMETHING VERY, VERY UNLIKELY.
WE WE'RE NOT NO LONGER IN CONTROL OF THE TIMING OF FUTURE EXPENDITURES ON IT.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT WOULD BE ANYTHING RESOLVED.
I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'D BE ANY ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURES PRIOR TO US TO GETTING AN 8 43 RULE.
YOU CAN DEFINITELY DO WHAT REBECCA SAID WHEN WE LIMIT THE REPRESENTATION TO THAT, TO GETTING THE PETITION ON FILE FOR THE 3060 AND MAKE AND MAKING THAT APPEAL
[00:55:01]
EFFECTIVE.IF WE LIMIT THE REPRESENTATION TO THAT BEFORE THEY WOULD DO ANYTHING FURTHER, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME AND WE, WE JUST HAVE TO REALLY STAY ON.
IT WOULD, IT WOULD KEEP THE PACE GOING WITH IT, IT WOULD KEEP THE PACE GOING AS AN ATTORNEY, I'M REALLY SCARED TO MISS DEADLINES LIKE THAT AND RELY ON A LETTER.
I'M JUST GONNA TELL YOU I APPRECIATE THEM NOT HAVING THIS TO US.
AS SOON AS THEY GOT THIS ISSUE FROM THE RS, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN A HOT HAND, HOT, HOT MAIL TO, TO THE JUDGE RIGHT HERE AND TO THE THE TREASURE.
YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT THE NEXT DAY.
AND I KNOW SO YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TAKING THEIR TIME ABOUT YES.
DOING I DEALING AND I DON'T LIKE THAT.
THAT'S WHY THEY KEEP ON DOING THAT.
AND, AND UH, THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALL HERE TODAY
I MEAN, BUT THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT.
AND I'M NOT TRYING, TOM NOT TRYING TO DEFEND ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WE'RE JUST PRESENTING INFORMATION AND TRYING TO FLUSH OUT, I THINK YOU'VE GOT PRETTY GOOD HORSEPOWER HERE AS TO WHAT IS IN THE TAX CODE.
THEY SHOULD BOTH KNOW IT IF ONE DOESN'T KNOW IT.
I Y'ALL ALREADY WE'RE NOT TAX CODE.
NO, I'M NOT, NOT TAKING ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE TAX CODE.
THAT'S WHY WE ARE NOT DOING THE TAX.
I MEAN YOU ALL WRONG BY DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT ASKING Y'ALL TAX JUNK
THANK GOODNESS I I WILL TELL YOU THIS MUCH MR. OAKFIELD AND I ON THE, THE BANK ISSUE, UH, WITH OUR PAYROLL TAX DEPOSIT.
HE BROUGHT ME UP IN 8 43 AND I FILED IT AND SENT COPIES OF THE BANK STATEMENT 'CAUSE I HAD TO SIGN IT AND THEY REFUNDED OUR 52 OR 4,200, WHATEVER IT WAS.
AND I CALLED AND ASKED, WELL IF YOU'VE REFUNDED THAT WITH PROOF THAT I HAD THE MONEY IN THE BANK AND THE BANK SENT A LETTER WITH MY STUFF, SAID IT WAS THEIR FAULT.
WHERE'S THE REST? WHY, WHY ARE YOU STILL BILLING ME $15,000? AND THEY SAID, OH, YOU HAVE TO WRITE ANOTHER LETTER AND YOU HAVE TO STATE IT A CERTAIN WAY AND WE'LL REVIEW IT.
SO I STILL HAVE A BILL SITTING ON MY DESK THAT I'M NOT PAYING TO.
'CAUSE THAT WAS NOT OUR ERROR.
THEY HIRED THESE GUYS OVER HERE WHEN YOU DO IT, GUESS WHAT? AND IT'S BEEN OVER 90 DAYS SINCE WE'VE BEEN DEALING THAT.
YOU KNOW, AND, AND SEE THE, THE STRENGTH HERE ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE IS IT'S, IT'S BIG ENOUGH TO, TO GET DAVID SKINNER INVOLVED.
YOU KNOW, AND, AND YOU KNOW, HE, HE SAID, I I'M HERE TO HELP AND YOU KNOW, I THIS WILL GET, THIS WILL GET HANDLED, YOU KNOW, IT WON'T, IT WILL NOT DEAF EARS.
IT WILL NOT GO THROUGH THE NORMS. YOU'LL GUARANTEE THAT.
I'LL GUARANTEE ANYTHING THAT
I GUARANTEE YOU THAT, THAT I'LL FLY UP TO DC AND BE WITH DAVID SKINNER MYSELF OUT OF MY POCKET TO SPEED IT UP.
JUDGE IGI GUARANTEE THAT IT WON'T GO THROUGH THE REGULAR CHANCE.
SO YOU THINK WE SHOULD JUST DISREGARD THE BY NOVEMBER THE SECOND? WHAT I WOULD DO WOULD BE, AND AGAIN, IF, IF IF IT WAS ME ON MAIN STREET, I WOULD FILE MY PLACEHOLDER APPEAL ON THAT.
AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT? IT IS, UH, RICK KNOWS IT IS JUST, IT'S JUST ONE PARAGRAPH LETTER.
I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT, AND HE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING TIME.
SO, YOU KNOW, MY MY IF IF THEY WERE WORKING FOR ME, I WOULD SAY HERE FILE, YOU KNOW, FILE OUR NOTICE OF APPEAL WITHOUT DOING THE FULL APPEAL.
KNOWING, KNOWING THAT, KNOWING THAT I GOT A BACKSTOP ON MY 8 43 RULING THAT EVERYONE HAS AGREED TO THE, THE AUTHOR AND COMPROMISE PROCESS THAT THEY'VE GONE THROUGH, UM, I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO SEE IF THEY HAD IDENTIFIED A CASE STUDY RULING THAT THEY WERE MIMICKING.
BECAUSE IN ALL OF MY WORK THROUGH THIS PROCESS THAT WAS NEVER
[01:00:01]
DISCUSSED.IT WAS ALWAYS GET YOUR 46 60 NINES FILE, 8 43 WITH THEM AND LET'S GO.
SO YOU DO THINK WE NEED TO FILE SOMETHING BY NOWHERE? SAY, AND IT NEEDS TO COME FROM UH, MA.
BECAUSE IT, THIS IS THERE DE OKAY.
AND WHEN WE, IF WE CHOOSE TO DO THAT, YOU LADIES CAN WORK WITH THEM AND TRY TO GET THE COST DOWN TO A MINIMUM.
UH, WELL WHAT I HEARD HIM SAY ON THE PHONE WAS THAT THEY WOULDN'T FILE JUST A ONE PARAGRAPH LETTER.
DID YOU HEAR HIM SAY THAT? NO, HE SAID HE WASN'T, HE SAID HE WOULD FILE ALL THAT INFORMATION ON ALL, ALL THEIR MISTAKES.
I GUESS THEY WOULD PETITION, BUT THEY WOULDN'T JUST FILE.
SO THAT'S, AND SOMETIMES SOME ATTORNEYS JUST, THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS THEY WANT.
SO, SO THAT'S WHAT I HEARD HIM SAY.
SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE, IF YOU WANT THEM TO, IF YOU WANT THE GOLDEN P AND P IS THAT PIE AND PIE, SORRY GOLDEN PIE AND PIE TO DO IT.
THEY WILL DO THE FULL PETITION WITH $3,060.
THAT'S WHAT I HEARD YOU SAID THAT HE WON'T DO LESS.
AND IF IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU MIGHT KNOW HOW TO DO THE ONE PAGE LETTER, WE JUST DON'T DO ANY TAX WORK.
WELL I, I WILL, I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU, UH, SHINE THE LIGHT ON THEM THAT THEY'LL MODIFY AND NOT CHARGE YOU 3060.
BUT, UM, BUT THAT'S WHAT'S BEFORE THE COURT TODAY.
I'M JUST NOT GONNA MAKE ANY PROMISES HERE AND THAT WE'RE IN A POSITION OF TRYING TO, TRYING TO GET SOMETHING.
BUT I, I WANTED, UH, I WANT THE TREASURER TO GIVE US DIRECTION ON THAT.
HE DOES BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO FILE SOMETHING BY THE SECOND OR THE SECOND AND THAT WE CAN LET THESE FOLKS DO IT AS CHEAPER OF PRICE AS WE CAN GET THEM TO IT FOR THAT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THAT WAS THE CHEAPEST PRICE.
I DUNNO HOW WE'RE GONNA GO OUT AND GET SOMEBODY ELSE TO DO IT AT THIS LATE DAY.
AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU, YOU YOU SET THAT CHAIN IN MOTION BACK TO YOUR BILL.
YOU KNOW, WOULD I HAVE ANY, I HAVE NO FEAR IF YOU DON'T FILE THAT APPEAL, JUDGE, I HAVE ZERO FEAR OF NOT FILING THAT.
BUT YOU DID SAY IF YOU THOUGHT WE SHOULD WELL BEGINNING BECAUSE YOU'VE GONE DOWN THAT PATH AND YOU'VE HIRED THOSE EXPERTS AND THAT'S WHAT THAT EXPERT SAYS.
I BELIEVE THAT THAT PATH ISN'T NECESSARY AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT WILL LEAD TO A RESOLUTION.
WELL IT SOUNDED LIKE TO ME THOUGH, HE SAID HE WAS GONNA FILE THE OTHER AT THE SAME TIME.
IS THAT NOT WHAT HE'S SAYING? WELL Y'ALL NEED TO CLEAR THAT UP.
WELL, I MEAN 'CAUSE HE HADN'T YET.
THAT'S THE PART THAT'S BOTHER ME.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M WITH THE PROBLEM WITH HIM BEING SLOW ABOUT THIS, THIS WHOLE PROCESS BEEN SLOW, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NEED THINGS HITTING US RIGHT HERE AT THE DEADLINE.
THEN US HAVING TO TRY TO JOCKEY OUR COMMISSIONER'S COURT TOGETHER TO SEE, SO YOU GOT THREE OUT OF FIVE SHOW UP TODAY? UH, BECAUSE AN ISSUE, HE'S, HE'S NOT TAKING OUR BEST INTEREST TO THE HEART.
WELL OF COURSE A 72 HOUR THING, I GUESS WE COULD HAVE DECLARED IT AN EMERGENCY.
I DUNNO WHETHER WE COULD HAVE NOT, WE'RE KIND OF LATE.
SO WHAT, UH, DO, UH, I, AND IF I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE, IF WE GO OUT PERHAPS EQUAL, DO THAT A LESSER RATE IF YOU, UH, YOU KNOW, JUDGE, I'M NOT, I DON'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE GONNA YEAH, I'M NOT GONNA COMMIT TO THAT BECAUSE IT'S WHAT HE TOLD US.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THE COURT, IF HE DOESN'T AT A LESSER RATE, GREAT.
BUT I THINK THAT'S THEIR RATE.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE CHARGING.
WELL, ANOTHER THING WE GOTTA FIGURE OUT WHO'S GONNA FILE WHAT? WELL,
THE APPEAL HAS TO BE DONE BY NOVEMBER 2ND.
I DUNNO THAT THERE'S A DEADLINE FOR THE EIGHT 40.
WE, YOU SCHEDULE NO THREE YEARS DEADLINE.
SO WE'VE GOT TIME TO WORK THROUGH THAT ISSUE.
AND IF, AND IF YOU'RE, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE ABLE TO DO THAT.
AND SO THERE'S NO REASON TO PAY, IT'S ALREADY DONE.
THEY ALREADY HAVE ALL THE, SO THAT CUTS AWAYS, THEY'RE DONE.
SO I DON'T, SO I THINK THAT WHAT I'M INTERPRETING IT, AND I COULD BE WRONG, IS I THINK THAT THEY'RE CHARGING THIS 3065, THE APPEAL TO GET THE PETITION TO FILE, FILE THE APPEAL.
AND THEN I THINK THAT POSSIBLE FUTURE CHARGES WOULD PROBABLY INCLUDE THE 8 43.
BUT IF, IF OUR TREASURER CAN DO THAT, THEN THERE'LL DO THAT REASON TO INCUR THAT, JUST LIMIT THE REPRESENTATION TO FILE.
THE APPEAL IS WHAT I'M, LET THEM KEEP RUNNING THAT OFFERING COMPROMISE PATH THAT THEY'RE ON.
YOU KNOW, I I, I INTRODUCED RICK TO DAVID SKINNER GAVE HIM ALL OF MY NUMBERS,
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WHICH WOULD'VE AFFIRMED THAT THE 8 43 3 ROUTE WAS THE ROUTE TO GO.THEY DISREGARDED THAT WISDOM, BUT Y'ALL ARE ON THAT PATH WITH THEM AND I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, PURSUE THAT PATH, YOU KNOW, BUT LET US JUMP ON THAT 8 43 AND IF, IF I NEED TO GO TO DC I KNOW Y'ALL WILL DO A LINE ITEM TRANSFER, SO I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT OUT MY POCKET.
BUT IF YOU DON'T, BUT IF YOU DON'T I WILL.
YEAH, THAT'S HOW MUCH I BELIEVE IN THIS.
YOUR CONTACT WITH DAVID CENTER, MAYBE SHORTLY THAT, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, WE WITHDRAW THE PETITION.
WE DON'T INCUR ANY FURTHER COSTS.
HOW MUCH DID WE PAY? WE HIRED 10 OR 12,000.
YOU KNOW, WE HAD A, THE FIRST BILL WAS 4,900 SOMETHING DOLLARS AND THEN WE'VE HAD A, THEN CAME LESS THAN 300, A LITTLE LESS THAN 400, A LITTLE OVER 600.
SO IT, IT, IT IS, IT IS BETWEEN SIX AND SEVEN OR IT'S BETWEEN YEAH, IT'S BETWEEN SIX.
THE INITIAL PRICE TO ASSIST THE COURT WAS 5,000 49 70.
SO I THOUGHT THAT'S ALL THAT WAS GONNA MEET IS TO DO THE FOUR, SIX NINES AND THE FOUR THREE, WHATEVER THEY ARE AND GET 'EM ALL CIRCUM THAT AND DO IT.
WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST HIRING SOMEBODY TO TAKE CARE OF.
AGENDA IS TO DISCUSS CONSIDERING SERVICE AGREEMENT FOR GOLD HEALTH OR ADVISOR AND LLD REGARDING A 10 99 OR IRS ISSUED.
UH, AND SO DO I HAVE A MOTION CONSIDERING ENTERING IN THAT AGREEMENT? NOT, NOT TO EXCEED 3060 MOTION.